So it a lot of times a hit or miss. So 0 vs almost full dmg.
And the skilled Nazeboos land it nonetheless. Ppl should stop assume that certain Heroes won’t land their skillshots. The “how easy/reliable to hit” part is only important when the exact numbers are talked. Hard skillshots shouls be rewarding, but not have a high average dps.
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The increase to his spider sustain (20% heal now close to 30%) makes it really hard, if not impossible for Zeratul to kill him if the jar hits as soon as he teleports on top of you with Seeker. One jar takes away 80% of his health.
At any point between levels 7 through 20, if you have completed your lvl 1 for that one extra second duration, it makes it difficult for Zeratul to Brute force Nazeebo out in the open. Zeratul needs to play perfectly and the only time window he has any chance of winning is 10-16, if he benefits from lvl 10 auto attack buffs.
At 13 you might catch him without ice block and get a kill, but the ideal play after 16 play is simply to trigger ice block and retreat or expect backup, because spiders get thrown out in 4 second windows and Nazeebo heals through ice.
Realistically you might land the sequence perfectly and kill Nazeebo in 5-6 seconds and end up trading resurrection timers, but take into account how a simple combination of 4 sec spiders + auto attacks does about 3700 damage before his Q refreshes even once. Zeratul has 3040 health so don’t expect to find success without taking spell Shield, as other two talents won’t cut it.
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I think the problem is that hots devs always preffered slower approach to balance. They used to give a hero smaller buffs in multiple patches in a row.
However, in the last few patches, for some reasons they drastically changed their approach and they started buffing many things at once. It broke Zag so hard that she had to be disabled, she was the first disabled hero in like 4 - 5 years! Now they buffed Naz’s Q and all of its talenst at once …
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If you can’t reliably land the jar on him the moment he engages, wait 2 seconds because he doesn’t want to face tank your frogs, if he is determined he will blink away and back to attack. You surround yourself with zombie wall at which point his initial burst of damage is wasted and you can reliably hit with with spiders to negate his damage (acts almost like a 250/s shield at lvl 16) and guarantee a kill.
it also requires him to hit only one target so a simple counter is just standing in the minions.
its also a rather slow moving small skillshot with a fairly short range.
so as nova you could simply poke him from outside of its range (he didn’t take the range increase if he took spider build)
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Maybe that’s it, because the opponents I face can’t play Zag so I rarely struggled against her.
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Here we are the first whining response
This actually shows the problem perfectly.
His damage is basically in line. He doesn’t even have top hero, although looking at 293 stacks I guess Fan did his best to avoid PvP.
Btw, Zagara is still outpushing him.
I think we’re talking about Vile Infection. Nothing else.
Before, he’d usually be a big liability until 175 stacks and lose consequently. Hence Q build having the lowest of all winrates - albeit I got better stacks with it as it was encouraging rotations.
Now, he is less of a liability, can get to 20 and then has a really good chance to win.
I absolutely expect adjustments, no denying that.
For starters, I’d put replace Vile Infection with Fury of the Storm. Yes, I just said that. 
And maybe a tiny buff on the trait.
By the way… as far as my experience goes, Nazeebo has one ability, Q, against everyone. W and E are anti-melee tools. I mean, have you ever seen a single Li-Ming or Tracer get caught in a zombie wall or by E? (Besides myself!) Alright, W blocks a lot of skillshots, it’s a shield.
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Stukov was disabled, but that was a bug issue. Also, I don’t think your historical analysis is quite right. This is where I have to give credit to whoever is in charge currently. They actually did disable Zagara. During AzJackson’s reign, there were insane and constant buffs that definitely deserved the same treatment, but during that time, they also had a weird hesitancy to nerf things. 60+% heroes were the norm. 55% heroes were supposed to be the point where things were considered OP and in a reddit post he moved the goal posts to absurd levels.
I’m not a fan of some of the changes, but there is at least an attempt at a moderating hand.
I think the more likely scenario is your game sense isn’t strong enough to be able to judge what is and isn’t balanced. I mean when Samuro first came out and was super OP, I didn’t personally have problems with him because I played Tass a lot, but I could still see he was pretty busted. I would just think that after seeing how you’re wrong so many times, you would think that just because you might not personally know how something may be, doesn’t mean others who have a clue can’t talk about it.
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Exactly Aphandra. If we consider that FanHots belongs to the 1% players of the game, who can take heroes to a new level, you described my first impression. Sure I never denied that he might be overtuned I just want to give the patch some time.
Even if you’re right, but I still never denied the option that he is op or overtuned, just made a bit of fun and said give it some time. It seems like your whole point is to harass me, because you’re annoyed by my comments, is it?
It is all about the right wording and evidence to describe things and we all know that many predictions were just rants.
No, I’m annoyed by you trying to shut down discussion. I don’t comment on every one of your posts, you make quite a lot. If you’re not comfortable making claims about a hero, then don’t. Telling others not to, especially when a new hero has new changes, you should expect people to make comments, critiques, and praises.
I don’t really want to shutdown the discussion that wasn’t my intention, but I made fun about it, because I indeed struggle to see, if there is a rant about sth or if it’s based on experience. The former isn’t really discussing worthy, is it?
Take it or leave it, you can say whatever you want, but telling people to wait and see is annoying. You do this after almost every single patch. WereElf is not ranting. They are making points, points you can disagree with and address, which I have on a few occasions myself, just like I have with you and many other people here.
I mean you criticized me for not wording something right, and then I had to link to you that my post was substantial. And even if it wasn’t worded well, the fact that Zagara was busted doesn’t invalidate someone’s opinion just because it wasn’t worded perfectly. People can word things very meticulously, and people like you will still say wait and see. If that was truly the mantra we have to uphold ourselves to, we might as well just shut down the forums for two weeks after every patch.
Probably and what’s wrong about it to wait one or two weeks? I would say it’s nothing compared to the time we have to endure until the next patch. I made my points about heroes like Zagara or Valla more than enough that I agree they are overtuned or busted.
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Didn’t Lucifer post a breakdown of winrates over the various ranks with Zag and she fell below 50% from Gold rank down? If so, then your theory would be validated.
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We were talking about Zag before nerfs. Did she fell below 50% before nerfs already?
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There’s nothing wrong with seeing what’s going to happen, but that’s like inevitable lol. We all have to do that anyways. But there’s nothing wrong with discussing changes if you have a good sense of how the game or specific heroes work.
Like I said, just because you’re not comfortable making any proclamations or your own analysis, you chiming into the conversation, adding nothing of value, and saying wait and see, even when there’s substantial information to dissect, is annoying. Let people discuss, and if you have specific issues you want to address, by all means, go.
Yeah, now you do, but you were also calling Zagara overtuned which is a massive understatement. Other people were making points way before you. When people were saying Medic changes were great, I made my post, and said I’m not so sure and detailed why.
What would have annoyed me is if after writing about a page’s worth, you’d probably say wait and see, label it a “rant” and not “written correctly”.
It wasn’t Lucifer, but here it is:
So you would be correct. At your skill level the Zags were just probably bad.
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Maybe it’s just me, who tries to focus the players to discuss like good players like lucifer. His comments are always well grounded.
And this was already before the nerf? Thanks Minky.
EDIT:
https://www.heroesprofile.com/Match/Single/?replayID=39017308
I played this game past few minutes ago and one of our players (gold) considered me as troll, because I picked Nazeebo first. He raged at me, because he thought Naz is still the old, not relevant hero like pre-patch; people also still ban Zagara at gold and silver, even though she isn’t a problem anymore.
How should I get a different opinion, if most of my games post patch are like this? That’s why I tend to wait before judging heroes, because I know that players around my league are slower to realise what is meta or not. My games post patch feels like pre-patch…
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