I have said it before and I will continue to say it. Mana cheating and cheating out 7+ mana minions/spells on turn 5 or sooner will kill this game. Every single game now plays out exactly the same every time.
Mage cheats out big spells.
Druid ramps/ cheats out massive minions.
Warrior cheats out minions.
Priest cheats out minions.
Hunter cheats out minions.
Rogue cheats out minions.
There are more and its just boring at this point. The design space is so choked to death with mana cheat. Nothing else sees much play. Is this really the best the dev team can come up with? Is this what people getting a salary to design cards come up with? It is honestly disappointing.
Every game is just massively polarizing turns one after another. If the next set it more of the same I think it will be time for another 5 year break. This is coming from someone who has hit top 500 a few times and has hit legend every month since returning. I can’t imagine being someone who doesn’t see success having to deal with this game after game.
Ramp and cost reduction have been in the game since the beta. The game has survived “mana chest” (which is not a cheat) for over a decade. There have been salty types like you since then too. They never mattered.
It was never to this extent. Try not to be a disingenuous tool next time. Actually, just blocking you. You never add anything to any discussion. This makes only the 2nd person I have blocked. I can’t imagine almost posting 13000 times and being an absolutely useless tool for most of them. Insane.
Technically accurate, but that’s the trajectory that forever games tend to go. They start off with features, and in a neverending effort to one-up what they were before, they become like their original selves but more so.
The point is: this is not actually new. It’s just undergone inflation.
Someone said it best yesterday. Marin cheats a 0 mana Reno and somehow it has 2 zero mana Troggs. Board clear and board restriction and 26 damage to the face.
Board majority, Utility, Board control, Preservatives. My grandmother used to tell me stories about the old days, a time of peace when the Avatar kept balance between the four tribes. But that all changed when the Utility nation attacked.
This is correct but there is another problem… the insane and stupid removers… thats why we need to cheat out big minions and spells because if we are not doing it… stupid removers makes us fail… another card design problem… The only hope left is the card rotation again I am affraid… However these craps will still be there in Wild… so… Don’t know what to believe anymore… not to mention OTK and aggro…
You claim that mana cheat will kill the game, yet provide no explanation for this.
What’s more, you contradict yourself by acknowledging that everyone uses it. If that’s the case, doesn’t that suggest players actually enjoy it?
If there were widespread hatred for mana cheating, people would stop playing a game so full of it, as you describe.
Scrotie’s point is clear: Mana cheating has always been part of the game, and it’s not what’s going to ruin it.
Your argument feels more like personal frustration than a well-reasoned point.
Just say: “I don’t like mana cheating, and it has ruined the game for me.”
That way I can get behind it.
Trying to present it as an objective flaw won’t hold up.
Man, I despise marin and lone ranger reno so much I made a deck that’s using neither just to fight back those that do. I don’t like what they’re capable of and would rather telegraph it with shudderblock the prior turn or bluff that I could do it with dorian (man works well as a meatshield, I find myself saying “Hey waste a turn shooting this for me will ya?” As they GOTTA kill it or else they end up regreting it) I prefer there to be a prelude one turn. And the fall the next turn, not both in the same turn
You make so many bad points I am not even sure where to begin.
I did give reasons why it will kill the game. The game becoming boring and every game feeling the same every time are very good reasons for a game to die. A game being incredibly polarizing is another reason why it could die.
Just because people are using a certain style of deck does not mean they enjoy it. It could simply mean that they want to win. If you look at the forums over the past 1/2 year one of the most consistent complaints have been about mana cheating.
Scrotie’s point is awful. A very small amount of ramp and mana cheat have always existed. But, to compare that to the pure insanity that we have today is being willfully obtuse. Comparing a turn 4 4/5 and 4x Water Elementals that all swing in to anything that existed in the first couple years of the game are lightyears apart in mana cheating.
My argument does not come from frustration, it comes from outright boredom. You can only see the same 5-6 cards played so many times before it is just a complete bore. We have 11 classes yet I know I am going to see the same few neutrals every single game without fail. Boring.
I like mana cheating when done without turning the game into a slot machine. I like mana cheating when it isn’t turn 4 and you are facing sometimes 20+ mana in value.
Literally wrong on every point.
EDIT: I will add this in because it also needs te be said. When such absolutely absurd turn 4-5 plays become possible it devalues the point of the first 1-3 turns and chokes out any reason for them to matter.
Since you said everyone is mana cheating, doesn’t that mean no one is? If everyone is doing it, it cancels out. How is the game polarizing when it’s the standard for all players? Go on.
It doesn’t matter.
By playing, you’re supporting the archetype of the deck you’re using. If you can’t grasp that, you’re really stretching things when you try and preach about mana cheating ruining the game and all that.
That’s why I always find it amusing when you post threads about the deck you used this month, only to turn around and criticize it. You are literally part of the problem.
You didn’t even understand Scrotie’s point.
I shouldn’t have to reply to this, but I will, so you can go back and reread the comment.
One and the same.
You’re frustrated because you’re bored.
Your entire argument stems from your personal dislike of the game’s current state. I don’t find that compelling, especially when you try to present it as an objective flaw.
I understand that by using one problem to solve another I’m screwing over more people in the long run. That’s why I was selective about which warlock strats I preached against! Discard and Self pain I’m willing to respect and acknowledge as a valid and viable strat but I would never use it myself! Am I a villain for hating shudderWOCK but encouraging the use of shudderBLOCK? Is that so wrong? Is it any worse than the advent of armor spam Odyn decks and double battle cry warrior crisises?
The moment you tried to use “subjective” as a rebuttal when talking about a subjective topic pretty much showed why you get dunked on in almost every thread.
It’s also revealing to see your true colors.
When someone disagrees with you, you resort to personal attacks. You’re quite literally a joke.
You made a bold claim, asserting that you have proof the game will die because of X. Yet, when challenged to provide actual objectivity, you turn to character attacks instead.
Moreover, as far as I can tell, you’ve made this declaration about the game being boring multiple times now, yet you’re still here. What does that say about the value of your subjective reasoning?
I never said it wasn’t. Congrats on licking boots for the 10000th time Boreas.
It is honestly not surprising that the same people who constantly have horrible takes also have terrible reading comprehension. Three people saying, “well mana cheat has always existed!” like that had anything to do with the discussion. I never said mana cheat never existed. I said the current state of it is far worse than it has ever been. People seriously need to work on reading comprehension.
In the past mana cheat was relatively limited starting with summoning out a 5 drop worth of stats on turn 4 (overload mechanic)… then mabye a big demon from a weapon and gradually progressing during the games lifecycle.
But now mana cheating has become the game entirely… tsunami on turn 4… marin into whatever on turn 6… dungar on turn 6.
Now thats not inherently bad by itself… the problem is its not symmetrical between classes… some do it much better than others see druid/mage/shaman and then they end up playing an entirely different game than the rest of the classes.
Its a mechanic a designer should be careful about but they’ve just gone to the extreme with it showing little care or regard and the game is suffocating because of it
