That’s not what I’m doing. In case you didn’t notice, the posts I’m replying to are not the ones asking for compensation but the ones demanding it because Blizzard somehow “deceived” them.
I’m not against compensation but spreading lies and disinformation to get it? No, thanks.
You are not part of Blizzard’s legal team so what you perceive as “lies and disinformation” is irrelevant to this Topic. If something is false you can report it if you like and Blizzard will handle it as they see fit. Also you are free to make a Topic relevant to these issues and discuss such affairs there. You have been off-topic many posts now, enough with your spams here.
So, it is fine to spread disinformation because no one is allowed to call you out on it? Yeah, that’s not how it works.
Yeah, sorry I don’t have any alt accounts.
As for the “forever” argument:
In 2016, they never mentioned that the whole of Classic/Basic would stay in Standard, “forever”.
Quote:
You’ll play Standard using a deck built solely from a pool of cards that were released in the current and previous calendar year, along with a core foundation of the Basic and Classic card sets (which will always be valid for Standard).
As much as you may not like it, the Core set still has a core foundation of Basic/Classic cards. Even using the word “core” in the description!
In 2017:
In order to keep Hearthstone exciting and accessible as more cards are added, Standard allows players to use the most recently released cards, as well as a core of Basic and Classic cards.
In 2018, the same thing:
In order to keep Hearthstone exciting and accessible as more cards are added, Standard allows players to use the most recently released cards, as well as a core of Basic and Classic cards.
This Core Set in 2021 is an evolution of what’s in Standard, finally re-imagined. It contains a core of Basic and Classic cards, and a whole lot more.
Now, there is another instance where the term “Evergreen” is used, but I can’t remember where it is.
If you can find a quote that supports the “forever” argument for the collectible Classic set staying in Standard, then sure, list it.
And, no, Blizzard didn’t change the wording of their article later
This is as it was on a Trump video in 2016: https://i.imgur.com/zAlXOjG.png
I already put my point out there for a HoF-like dust compensation, it’s a time of great gain to be able to use that dust to craft some old cards we’ve been wanting for a while, or save it for some new Legendaries down the road. And we don’t have that.
I don’t feel the words core foundation are what is relevant in that statement - but the fact that Blizzard have said that these cards (Basic and Classic) will always be valid for Standard. ALWAYS.
Does that not imply forever? If you look up the definition of the word ‘always’ it equates to meaning ‘constantly’, ‘continually’, ‘forever’ and ‘time after time’
That is why I feel consumers have been mislead.
Aside from the 88 cards they are keeping in the Core Set - how are my other 152 Classic Cards still valid in Standard?
And in 2017 they stopped using the word always. If you need to go back at least 4 years to find proof for their “misleading” advertisment (which wasn’t at the time), I don’t think you have a strong case.
At this point, I’m recommending putting out a well-written post on Reddit to try and get some attention from the devs.
We are unlikely to get anything done by discussing on these forums only.
I’ll be arguing for a HoF like dust compensation, but you can try and argue for the full dust refund yourself.
Just that I’ve already let you know, that it’s hundreds of thousands of dust and how much that’s worth for most players, not just for golden card collectors like yourself.
When I spoke to Trading Standards - they suggested the first action would be to let Blizzard know you have an issue, and to find out what their complaints procedure is.
I submitted a ticket on here and of the Gamesmaster Team suggested posting on forums in the first instance - as Moderators are able to post and respond. Given this thread has the largest number of replies of late - I cannot imagine comments have not been read - there has just been no response to date.
The next line of enquiry they suggested was to email ‘pr@blizzard.com’ which I have also done, and again received no response.
The next line of enquiry suggested was to contact their legal team. I have waited until after Blizzcon, to see if there were any amendments made to their initial stance - and there weren’t. I am submitting an official complaint today. I have been advised by Citizen’s Advice to contact them for further support if needed.
Trading Standard’s cannot get refunds issued etc but they can look into terms and agreements, and in cases where there has been a breach stop a company from trading until a resolution is reached.
At this stage I am simply asking for a formal response to all of the above - rather than simply being ignored. Because I have now had to go through a legal route they are obliged by law to respond within a certain timeframe - even if it is just to say my arguments are garbage and not backed by law. I can then feed their response back to Trading Standards who can investigate further it need be.
By all means post on Reddit - I just feel arguments and points easily get swamped there and Blizzard do not have to reply or comment. I am not at this stage seeking any kind of monetary reimbursement - but I do feel very strongly that Blizzard have reneged on their original terms of sale.
Certainly, Hearthstone has stated on multiple occasions that Classic cards will always be playable in Standard, hence the Classic set was to be “evergreen”. Any mass rotation of Classic cards out of Standard that occurred without an offer of full dust compensations would be in direct opposition of what the company had told players.
So could a class-action law suit occur over a mass rotation of Classic cards out of Standard, which failed to include an offer of full dust refunds for the rotated cards? Absolutely! And I think this is a risk that company is willing to take, since the benefits to the game from such changes outweighs such a risk.
The free Core set approach is a smart attempt at avoiding any massive blowback (and any legal repercussions) for making such a dramatic change. In my opinion, the rotation of the Classic set was almost as inevitable as the creation and separation of the Standard and Wild modes.
Players like Brian Kibler have been advocating such a change for years.
I even once proposed the idea of an “Encore” mini-set, which would temporarily bring back some Wild and Hall of Fame cards to be played in Standard for few weeks before each new expansion came out just to shake up stale metas while players were waiting for the excitement of new cards to come out. There was even an event that seemed to be testing my idea. I am pleased with the “Core” set name, since I was fond of my own “Encore” set name and concept.
Clearly, a Classic set rotation, and utilization of a regularly changing Core set, will make Standard feel less stale, and more importantly it will remove many design constraints as the devs move forward with creating new expansions for Standard.
This ^ is what I see as the most unfortunate downside to the rotation of the Classic set:
With the change from two expansion and one solo adventure per year to the amount of new content that we now get per year, it quickly became apparent to most players who liked to collect golden cards that they had no chance to keep up with the pipe dream of playing fully golden decks, and so this made the Classic the only set that provided a practical return in fun and value for crafting and collecting golden cards for those players who were willing take added time and expenses to play multiple golden cards in their decks.
I can only hope that devs listen to feedback and do something for those players who collected or crafted a lot Classic golden cards, because they believed the company when players were told that their Classic cards would always be playable in Standard.
It is challenging to have people come together right now with the flood of news that has just been released.
Virtually everybody agrees that reworking classic was much-needed and that it’s great that the core set makes the game more new player friendly. But because of all those upsides a lot of people turn a blind eye on the downside it creates for people owning a significant amount of the classic set. All the positivity and hype around the new content have some think: ‘‘Some great stuff is happening, so let’s not worry about what could be wrong’’, a bit like if doing something right in one area would cancel out doing something wrong in another.
When the first iteration of the new reward system was released it took some time and effort to have people start discussing its issues because many new other things like Duels got people hyped. With time players got to understand that even though the system had some obvious upside they were also some points that needed to be worked on and eventually Blizzard made some change.
Not since 2016. That’s the only time they said Classic and Basic sets would always be in Standard. In later years, they did not use the word “always”, just that Classic and Basic would be in Standard along with the recent expansions.
And there isn’t a mass rotation of cards (because that would imply Classic cards would remain while they are replaced by “reprints” in the Core Set), but a rotation of a set, and sets rotating to Wild have never given dust. In fact, only cards rotating to the Hall of Fame have given dust and there will no longer be a Hall of Fame either.
No, it couldn’t because it says in the EULA that Blizzard has the right to change the game to balance it. And again, it’s a rotation of a set, which has never given dust and not a select group of cards from that set.
As for why so many players feel that they were told that Classic cards would continuously be a part of Standard, resulting in the evergreen concept would be from blue follow posts that were in the forums around the time when Standard was announced. I might even have screenshots such posts on an old hard drive.
There might even be something that was once posted on Hearthpwn or said in a interview (that still exists on YouTube somewhere).
Just do not expect the company to provide or point out (or even to deny) such sources.
That’s still over four years ago. I can’t really think of a company that still has the same terms and conditions on the same product they sell after such a long time.
I am not trying create arguments, but many things that end up in terms of agreement policies do not hold up in courts when challenged, especially when they conflict with consumer laws and protections.
I am really not that interested in building a case against, or a defense for the company.
There has long been a perception that Classic cards were to be an evergreen part of Standard. If this perception is based statements made by company officials (blue comments) or company interviews. Then a case can be made and a suit can be filed.
Personally, I look forward to seeing how the changes pan out. I also would love to see some compensation for the changes, especially in regards to Classic golden cards. It would be great if the company came to this conclusion as well.
There are lots of things that can affect a company’s business model. Unhappiness of a significant portion of customer base aside, does anyone remember how gambling laws started to rock the boat about the price of packs and the randomness of their contents? Such a challenge was not fielded by any large player faction.
I do not think that the timing of a Classic rotation is a coincidence to all the other changes that have been occurring in Hearthstone, and the Classic rotation is not without risks no matter how well planned it is or how powerful the other distractions and changes are.
But no recent statements. Like I said, the last time Blizzard said Classic and Basic would always be in Standard was in 2016. That’s four years that they haven’t said it would always be in Standard.
And in the end, nothing changed. Prices stayed the same (with a few exceptions that were regional and not tied to gambling laws since I believe they happened before that), and you still have at least one rare in each pack.
read this. and then read it again. if they decide yall are too annoying they can just ban you without any issues and not have to deal with it anymore. it would be a PR disaster for a week or two and then the rest of us will just open our pre order bundles. lol
A few things:
But it’s not uncommon for things to end up court anyways, so let’s not act like it can’t happen, even it’s unlikely in this situation.
An important point is that players were told something, and some made financial investments into the game based on this information, which is now going to be turned into a lie by the new changes, and it’s their right to bothered or to feel cheated by these changes—and to voice a desire for some kind of restitution.
Opinions on the Classic set rotation may differ, but I certainly do not want to listed as advocating for a “Southpark, I do what I want” business model for determining how a gaming company can and will deal with its longterm customers. Trust is important—and it has financial value in the business world.
I have lost count of the of dozens and dozens of things that other players have told me about things that do not need to happen—won’t happen—but happened never the less.
So I am never impressed by fanboi comments that are designed to quell any complaints about game costs or fair value when it’s clear the commenter is apathetic to such topics.
Some players are looking for a good, fair and fun, long term investment into a game while others are just looking to be perceived as superior.
Hearthpwn still has some of the early FAQs about Standard:
“## Standard Format FAQ
How often will Standard format change?
Standard format will be updated with the first new Expansion released each year. When that happens Standard format will be updated to include card sets from the current and previous calendar year. The Basic and Classic card sets are always part of the Standard format.
Why are Basic and Classic always part of Standard?
These cards serve as a foundation for Hearthstone. They help give Hearthstone its flavor, they have mechanics that are great for introducing new players to the game, and players who have taken a break can return to Hearthstone confident that they’ll be familiar with these cards.”
and it’s not like all of those cards are being removed forever. it’s not like they’ll just disappear when you log in after the expansion launches. you still have access to a great number of those cards in standard. and you’ll be able to use different ones when they rotate with the next rotation.
you’re complaining about a design change. that’s why the classic format exists. you’ll be able to play a full set there any time you’d like.
they didn’t steal the cards from you. you can still use them.
in wow hunters were the only class with 3 physical ranged dps specs. it was like that for over 10 years. then blizzard decided to make survival a melee spec. they got no huge amount of compensation for it. it is hugely unpopular even when it’s above and beyond the best dps. they all shouted the same way yall are. nothing has or will change. that’s the nature of the game. read the EULA to understand why no lawsuit of any kind will work. and trust me… people who played wow since vanilla to legion paid a heck of a lot more money than anyone in hearthstone ever has.
Full dust is given for nerfs and HOF where cards have gotten too strong or are adversely affecting balance in Standard. Power creep happens in most all games and HS is no exception. The majority of Classic cards are not playable for this reason. The playable cards from Classic will be brought back in the Core set plus other playable cards we don’t have yet. Hard to imagine the whiners on here wanting full dust for unplayable cards. Lol. I’m happy I can dust Millhouse and Cho without fear of getting them back again.
I really am not complaining about the Classic set being rotated, but I suppose I am being cornered into championing someone’s else’s right to be upset about it because they were once told that the Classic set would always be a part of Standard.
And it’s pretty obvious that creating a Classic only format is a pretty shabby recompense for such a change to Standard. How boring, I have no interest in playing the Classic format. I do not even play Wild, despite owning most of the Wild cards.
Just six months ago, in a conversation with a friend, I suggested that we might see most of Classic getting rotated soon. Like I said, this change became predictable just as Standard and Wild became predictable, and just like “Hall of Faming” Sylvanas and Ragnaros was predictable (and discussed my me in the forums before it happened).
All of these changes have been necessary because too much value was packed into too many cards starting with the Classic set.
The design team wanted turns to feel powerful, so Hearthstone had powercreep (as compared other card game starting sets) built into it’s very first set. And making that set “evergreen” was problematic from a design standpoint. Cards need to become more powerful over time to attract purchases and to stall off boredom.
Many powerful Classic cards became obligatory in decks, and if an expansion through powercreep introduced a better card for a particular mana slot, then that card became obligatory (i.e. Dr. Boom).
If Classic did not rotate soon, then more
Classic cards, like Tyrion, Alexstraza, Swipe, etc., would probably have been HoF’ed.
I have an excellent track record for predicting cards that will get nerfed, then crafting them and using them on all my accounts until I can get a full dust refund for them. Although I was very wrong about Dr. Boom when I crafted a golden copy when I already had two normal copies. If Standard and Wild had not been introduced when it was, Dr. Boom would have probably have been nerfed, but instead it was just swept into Wild. My timing was off, because Standard came at least one year sooner than I had expected.
Warpunk is right to point out that a free Core set is zero compensation for rotating the Classic set out of Standard, since a player who never bought a Classic pack will have access to the Core set.
In light of what was promised in the past, I do not blame players who made extra investments into the Classic set for feeling cheated. Let them vent. Let the give feedback. Let them ask for some compensation, even it proves unlikely to happen.