It is different, it doesn’t use shatter and no need to fish for Shaman boss.
Firebolt has to best single target damage, it lack of AOE clear as you only can shoot 3 arrows at a time. Therefore for effective clearing you need to use Raiment to pull the mobs, which lead to the requirement of very expensive GA CDR in gears everywhere. It is because you have to sacrifice the chest armor with Flameshield skill points and duration.
You can make an inexpensive no GA CDR firebolt build without raintment for T200 kill or longer tier PIT farming by sacrifice some AOE damage. Position your attack to get as many mobs in your arrow path will help in clear speed.
I have played Bash Bleed Barb and Firebolt sorcerer for the last two weeks and below is my comparison on T100 PIT farm speed, put aside the fact Bash Cleave tempering is bugged and gives 11x unintended damage which will be gone next season.
Bash Bleed Barb
Gear demand: Medium, you need Shakro and Grandfather but GA gear exclude Strength is nice to have but not mandatory
AOE clear speed: On the contrary it is better than Firebolt sorcerer (None shatter build), because the Barb has unfair 100K HP from extra weapons slots. So he can freely reposition himself to pull a large group of trash mobs for best AOE clear
Single target damage: Is worse than sorc because you will get crowd control a lot by the boss and need to dodge the shadow lilith, you cant survive that even with 120K HP. Bash barb damage depends on a routine, 4 critical bash, one hota overpower hit and then cast steel grasp and War cry for the 100M per hit damage. Very often you get interrupted by boss crowd control or the boss disappear like the sharpshooter and wastes all the steps.
Firebolt sorcerer
Gear demand: Medium to high, you can start with none GA CDR gear. It will has slow AOE clear speed due to limited reposition, but still best in single target boss damage as you just standstill there attacking all the time.
AOE clear: Is the worst as you need to stay static constantly spam the firebolt to trigger the hectic for CDR. Clear speed improve with GA CDR gear as you will have more freedom of movement by having more cool down reduction. Eventually it become faster than barb with best GA CDR gear as Sorcerer has Evade TP while barb has to walk slowly on foot.
Single target damage: Superior as you will never get crowd control or no need to dodge any mechanic. There is a lot of multiplier on basic skill with Firebolt, same like bash. But I think it will get nerf next season.
Firebolt sorcerer is best play with game mouse with Macro. I actually use one button to play most of time by binding the evade, flameshield and firewall to one button and set the firebolt to auto cast with another button.
Cool. Just watching you spend all this time defending a class that need fixing. Trying to keep them from fixing it.
Glad firebolt sorc is working out for you.
That’s not what I play.
No, I don’t want to switch. I want the build I have put all the effort into building to NOT be a huge waste of time. If you can’t make a case for why the class isn’t trash WITHOUT reverting back to “well you just gotta play it exactly the way the one person who spends all their life devoted to playing it played it before he rage-quit” as your argument… I dare say you don’t have an argument at all.
Yes it requires work and rng and all that shiiii.
…And then after all that they pull another update and you’re still getting 1-shot.
What’s the point of having a class with so many options for skills if there is only ONE viable build? It’s just a waste of time. Or rather… just a bunch of fluff to dig through so that argumentative commenters like you can have something to point to and say “you just didn’t learn _____ well enough!”
Its a game.
I’m trying to play it when I’m done working. So that I DON’T feel like I’m working.
What you’re saying is Sorc is perfectly viable and there’s nothing wrong with it as long as I spend enough hours combing the documentation to see which skills are additive and which are multiplicative… and studying all the right build guides… and maybe getting a PHD in crowd-control.
It’s broken.
Quit arguing and drink your copium like the rest of us.
No I wont study the literature just to make a game playable in the endgame.
No I wont switch to a fire build because it’s the only option. The fact that it’s the only option means you’re wrong.
Sorc is broken. It needs fixing.
Stop arguing let it get fixed. The more people like you come on these forums to gas up this broken class saying it’s fine and doesn’t need any work, the longer it takes for the rest of us to be able to play it.
And it’s been A YEAR already.
So…
S
T
F
U
Season 4 meta is basic skill, you either play a bash barb, heart seeker rogue or firebolt sorc if you don’t want to play Necro. Core skill is mediocre this season as the PIT HP is tuned based on the overturned Necro golem damage with intention from Blizzard. Only the basic skills has the largest multiplier to match with the millions damage of the Golem.
He hid his profile and for some reason that makes you unable to ignore him there. However, I found you can go to your forum preferences, then the users section, and manually add OliveShark-3410 in the ignore list. I am surprised he hasn’t been banned yet.
Could you try to play a barbarian without the bug bash cleave or the bug thorn and clear T120?
So Barbarian is a trash class as there is no other viable option other than the bug build? Try play a none Necro Minion build or None bug Rogue Heartseeker build to clear T120?
It looks like all class are trash and only has one viable bug build? So is the class need buff or just the PIT HP need nerf?
The problem here is when you see a skill of a class for barbarian like Whirl Wind and HOTA not viable for difficult content and you just look the other way and assume those none viable skill not existent for the sake of argument that sorcerer skills are weak and the entire class need buff?
Do you know how much damage a Bug Bash Barbarian do? 100 millions per hit, so you want Blizzard to buff Frozen orb so it hits 100millions per cast? Do you think this is normal? If Blizzard make Frozen orb hit 100 millions and you don’t think they will just increase the mobs HP in PIT from 1 trillion to 100 trillions. Blizzard philosophy is always ensure you take the same time to clear a content no matter how much buff they gives you, if you never able to clear T90 with current Frozen Orb, and Blizzard buff the damage to 100 million they will ensure you still never able to clear T90 with your current build. This is to ensure you spend 3 months to grind the same content by design.
The only way you can do more damage is make a better build by understand the class mechanic. Those who clear T130 has PHD level understand the game. Do you know they count how many attacking frame per 60 seconds a skill like Frozen Orb or Firebolt as each skill has its own base attack time? They will ensure their total attack speed align with the attacking frame as, any excessive attack speed will go waste if your attack speed not reaching the attack frame breakpoint.
This just about a 3 post newbie blame a class when you cant perform. You were complaining your struggle at PIT above as I can see your post 15hours ago. Struggle to get PIT material above T61? Seriously this is not your issue? So many sorcerer already clease T100 with frozen orb and Ice Spike build. Just play the bug barbarian if Sorcerer is too difficult for you to handle.
You’re still trying to argue that Barb is a trash class while Sorc is on the same level?
This has nothing to do with mechanics.
A barb with crap gear and just masterworking as he goes along can easily hit and farm Pit 80 in a five minutes or so, with a little work into the build can farm Pit100 for mats.
Sorc takes meticulous optimized work to even just barely do Pit 80, with fully-masterworked gear. To get to Pit 100 you need to do Fireshield exploit and the gameplay is crap (who thought shooting firebolts into firewall was fun?)
Sorc is a trash class and it has nothing to do with Sorc players being too dumb to play the glass like you keep insisting. Sorc has been a consistently bad class ever since Season 0, the only time Sorc was good was during the Beta 6 months before release, and has been trash tier ever since, with a small moment of brilliance during Season2 (where it was still inferior to Barbs, which have been God Tier for the entire lifetime of Diablo 4).
You still ignore the fact Bash barb tempering is bugged and do unintended damage? Have you check around many threads in this forum the bash cleave is bug and need fix?
You are comparing a build based on bug tempering which give 100 million damage with basic skill, so you want to change it any spell cast by sorcerer also has 100 million damage? And I have repeated above Blizzard will just increase mobs HP start with trillions if all skill in the game can do 100 million. So how this buff will help you clear the content easier with sorc?
What is a point of continue make argument by ignore the facts that many builds are bug or overtune, this happen in all season and only fix before the start of next season. Why Blizzard even bother listen to you when you are comparing against a build which they know is due to bug? And you continue ignore the fact of the class include Barbarian do not have other viable build except the bugged one which will get patch next season. Have you play Druid? this class has no bug build and see how far they progress in PIT? Have you played Rogue which two of their only viable build Rapid Fire and Victimize got nerf? So Druid and Rogue players also want to cry about their class is trash as they cant clear Pit 80 easily like bash barb?
There are already Frozen orb and Ice Spike clear T111. Ball Lightning also clear T117. So you just ignore the fact that it is only firebolt viable above T100. This has nothing to do with the most sorc player’s build is trash?
Check the video and play better instead of crying about a class, 4 different build already cleast T110 above which i don’t include the firebolt.
Sorc is the only few class which can kill Uber Lilith since season 0 as the Control Aspect was bugged then. It become weak when this bug was patched. Again a viability of a class is defined by whether it has bug build. Player just have problem to play an ordinary class which free of most of the bugs and want to play an easy mode. Sorc already received a lot of buff in Season 2 if you care to read patch notes, together with the easy mode bug ball lightning.
We all tested Sorc in PTR and no one complaint not able to clear the highest PIT with many build. The only change since PTR was the unreasonable HP of the mobs which make many build of many classes not viable. It has nothing to do with a class is weak.
thanks for your insite, i disagree with your posts. some have merrit to give ideas about balance, but others dont contribute to the overall feeling of lack of “power” the sorc class has been feeling since launch. this is in the sorc forums, please move your discussions with yourself to the barb fanboy section of forums. 2 extra 2handed weapons is to huge a advantage over the sorc class…
go bring this discussion over on the barb forums and youll be laughed at, just sayin…
I have three sorc and one barbarian. Already reach T110 Pit as sorc, where are you at sorc fan boy?
The sorc already gain 100% damage increase since the hotfix 2 weeks ago, else how you think Ball lightning has reach T117 Pit and Firebolt already reach T147? Where their damage come from? All decent sorc players already changed their paragon and use different legendary aspect to make use of the new power. Nevertheless there are still many cry around lack of power when they still continue to use a build from season 2.
The problem of sorcerer are always with players who talk trash without knowing its mechanics. When you talk about sorcerer lack of power, look at the mirror you will find the weakest link.
Ignore Oliveshark in your preferences, he has nothing to offer the conversation except for talking down to other people while failing to understand the point of a forum. If he did, he wouldnt be aurguing with other people and causing problems, but instead helping come up with solutions.
And Oliveshark, if your solution is to use an infinite flame shield sorc or a variant thereof, I think people have made it pretty clear that is not what they want to do. Perhaps coming up with an alternate solution instead of trying to force people to do what you want them to do, is a better approach. With your current mentality, no “new” builds will be discovered because we will constantly be stuck using what works “now”.
This idea lacks imagination, and displays the perspective that “things are good as is” which halts ideas, and stagnates progress. If you dont allow for the conversations to happen about things people dont like, how can you expect things to ever get better or to change for that matter at all? Unless the truth is, you dont want anything to change. Come on man, we both know sorc could be so much better than this. I can tell your passionate about the game but your responses do not reflect the diablo community as a whole, please be better.
You already have many options to progress the PIT further. It is all about your build and how you play it. You also ignore that all the class do not have build variety in clearing the PIT, they only has one or two viable build related to bug or overturned skill. This has been same since AOZ in Season 2, or ball lightning and HOTA barb can clear T25. No one complained about they forced to play ball lightning. the PIT is just another AOZ.
We will have the build variety if Blizzard reverse the change in PIT after PTR. No one complaint about only certain build can clear the highest PIT when we testing it in PTR. You still don’t see the point. The problem is all about the HP of the PIT is overtuned, not class.
The sad thing is many players sitting here crying about the sorc is weak, not spend time to theorycraft and make build. They miss out the undocumented buff to sorc in the hotfixes two weeks ago which give us 100% x damage. Only the top sorc players make use of this in all kind of build include ball lightning.
Could you share in more detail what you are talking about?
I’m sure I’ve used everything I could to get a boost in power, I’m interested to know what it is and if it works for me.