Hey, Lloyd there!
I haven’t read anything on this wall of text, just saying hello there! 
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Free trading if we want an amazing Diablo experience. Anything else will end in a poor game.
D3 has no trading and leaderboards are dominated with players that use huds and bots for farming exp and mats so prohibiting comerce bring us nothing in that aspect.
Trading is a core aspect of the Diablo saga.
Premise: I’m a solo self found player.
I never traded in D2.
In D3 I never used the RMAH but I did give a try to the AH with one of my earliest characters, just in the earliest stages to see if it would add to the game.
It didn’t.
I like to get the items from drops and play the game to get that very elusive item I seek.
To me it makes every drop exciting and keeps interesting the game later on, it’s a kind of end game content.
Trading removed that from the game experience.
That said, I’m not against trading since I met many players in forums who found the game more fulfilling that way and they, as me, have all the rights to enjoy the game their own way.
Is it possible to make both options cohexist? Maybe, maybe not.
I think that’s going to be a though one for Blizzard.
The idea of having items tradable only once could help remove some of them from the market thus (hopefully) limiting the inflation of items.
Yet the ability to get whatever item you need/want to make your character powerful will reduce the time you need to reach the end game.
The risk is that people will start complaining about there being no end game, or the game being boring or not challenging enough.
And so Blizzard will start nerfing/tweaking/balancing or totally changing how an item or a skill works.
That’s D3 story, from my point of view.
For those like me, who aim to a certain build and need time to get there, having it change or completely disappear its frustrating and really spoil the game experience.
I think it would be best for us to try to reason and find out if there is a possible way to make both group of players happy.
Standing on opposite fronts is not going to help.
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I am just stating the facts, guys.
If Diablo 4 doesn’t have MTX, whales become of no interest for the developers and we would have the D3 trading case.
MTX → Whales → Increased drop chances for whales → Trading
Whether Blizzard themselves sells the gold or the whales acquire it from 3rd parties doesn’t change the fact that whales would have increased drop chances with the gold they bought due to trading/gambling. Of course in one case the noob players would scream: “DIABLO IS PAY TO WIN”, while in the other they would be okay, but in fact it is all the same.
The moment TRADING drops in the game is the moment the in-game competition gets crippled as long as required measures aren’t taken aka SSF implementation.
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I’m going to politely reject your open trade and player economy ideas. No thank you… not interested. There simply is no inexpensive option to curtail or mitigate the negative effects of open trade. Are you willing to purchase the game at $1000 to $3000 USD to cover the cost of development and all the lawyer fees? The lawyer fees will be needed to sue and/or prosecute those 3rd party black market RMT organizations, both inside and outside the US. How about an on-going monthly charge of $50 to $150 USD to subsidize the on-going legal effort?
We’ve been down this path twice with open trade. It was ruined by the online clowns and the RMT orgs. like JSP.
I don’t care how many streamers want it. They aren’t anymore important than you or me, and as such they should not have a greater influence on the game than you or me. It matters not if you are a casual player or a lifeless drone contributing 12+ hours a day for months at a time.
If you want to compromise and are open to some give and take, then let’s talk.
You want open trading. Blizzard wants money.
I want (for PC):
- off-line mode
- LAN mode
- native 64-bit Linux game client (no wrappers, translation layers, no slight-of-hand bulls***)
- large private stash and large shared stash (let me turn my 4gb HD into an external game storage)
- an unlimited number off-line characters (keep the off-line stuff off-line)
- full robust API support for 3rd party, out of game, stash/item/character management mods (think GoMule)
- off-line and LAN play have full access to the same content and features as online only play (none of this season only stuff and delayed non-season access)
- the game isn’t balanced around online only play and/or forced/incentivized partying
Don’t even think of suggesting consoles. I don’t buy those things and I already have superior equipment (Ryzen 7 3700x, 32gb RAM, EVGA RTX 2060, large SSD, gigabit Ethernet, and 5G Wi-Fi).
This is the WIN-WIN-WIN. Everybody is happy.
For those worried about trading. Dont. If it doesnt make in then people will complain. If trading does then there will be a huge drive for bots and people to make them up so people can make a little cash on the side. Win win.
Ok seriously though. If you dont want trading then do what I do and dont trade. I didnt trade in d2 when it was added and I wont in d4. If the item has no use to me and I dont have plans on making one that will use it then it goes right to the local vendor or broken down. Sure there will be people that will buy the best gear. So what. They cheap themselves out of any real game play. The only down side i see would be the same gear shaming that happens in WoW but that is a different issue with blizzard.
The problem with trade is that there is a high chance drop rates will take it into account. I mean…the trade barons won’t be happy if all their items are “too common” or “worthless”, will they? This means that players who prefer to find their own items get the short end of the stick.
If some kind of middle ground can be reached so that those who don’t want to trade can still gear up at a decent rate and those who want to trade can still enjoy that side of the game, that would be ideal, but I’m not sure that kind of balance is even possible.
One of the biggest problems with the D3V AH was that it condensed the loot from an entire region into an easily-searchable format. It didn’t matter how rare an item was - with thousands or tens of thousands (or millions?) of players all dumping loot into the same interface, everything was common…and that was with drop rates that were ludicrously crappy.
Any D4 trading system needs to have some sort of limit in place on how many players can contribute to it, so that item availability is satisfying enough for the trading experience without totally screwing over the self-found loot hunt the way D3V did.
I don’t care if people use third party sites or whip out the ol’ Visa for some new gear. I do care a hell of a lot about whether the trading system screws over my preference to find my own gear.
It’s okay to prefer one system over the other (trade vs self-found) but it’s not okay to ignore the other system in favor of your own preference. That just makes you look like a dink.
Exactly.
Only way that is possible is with two separate and individually balanced game modes.
What do you mean by gear up at a decent rate though? You can easily balance the game for both players who trade and don’t trade and still be able to gear at a decent rate. Are you meaning like get the GG BIS items at a decent rate solo?
You cant though. Trading is significantly more efficient than not-trading. Likely in the range of 10-100x more efficient.
The two paths of gear progression will be extremely far from each other.
If you try to find a middleground in that, you likely end up frustrating both groups - with traders feeling the droprate is too high, flooding the market, making everything nearly worthless, and non-traders never finding any of the best items for their builds.
This is one of those hard-to-explain areas because it means something different for everybody. For me it falls under the “doesn’t need to be as fast as D3 now, but self-found shouldn’t restrict build choice as much as it does in PoE”.
My average the last few Seasons for leveling and getting my 6-piece of choice and most or all of the supplemental items to make the build really work has probably fallen in the 12-ish hours range. I work full time and outside of the first week of a Season I play very casually, usually finishing a Season between 600-700 paragon. Even so, the gearing process feels…clunky? I don’t know how to best describe it. With the insane multipliers on gear, there are very obvious breakpoints where you can feel your build get more powerful.
If D4 does away with the ludicrous multipliers on gear and shifts a lot of the power potential to rares (as in D2) it wouldn’t matter to me if it took 2-3x as long for my build to “feel” complete, because there wouldn’t be such drastic leaps in power and because it would feel like I was incrementally upgrading a lot more often. Also note that for me a build feeling complete does not mean having best-of-the-best items (i.e. perfect Ancients or Primals in D3’s terms). It means the build can handle all the (PVE) content. I don’t PVP so I can’t speak to that. Hope this helps.
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Lmao this is actually so fkn cringe. Streamers don’t necessarily know games better than anyone else. There are people who have way more hours invested into ARPGs with a better understanding of game design than any of those.
I follow where you’re coming from, but I’m not entirely convinced this is the solution either because it completely alienates anyone who falls on the fence one way or the other - for example, players who don’t mind the occasional trade but prefer to find most of their gear themselves, or players who play with one or more friends or family members and only ever trade amongst themselves.
Based on what we’ve seen of D4 so far, with the idea that cities/camps/towns will be more densely populated and the open wildnerness less so, it sounds like Blizzard will be leveraging something similar to WoW’s sharding technology to control player populations in various areas of the game. Maybe something along that line can be leveraged for trading as well, although I will admit to having zero idea how to even begin to implement it.
If the number of players feeding into a trading environment can somehow be capped or limited, the feeling of items being more rare (and thus more valuable) can be maintained to an extent, especially if coupled with the “trade once, then bind to player” mechanic that has been tossed around. If such an environment is possible, there would be no need to segment out the playerbase into fully separate game modes.
I get that the solution I’d love to see is probably extremely unlikely, but I still feel that there’s some sort of compromise possible that doesn’t step on a bunch of players in the process.
You really think that is going to work when:
- drop rates will most likely be affected (look at D2 and D3 vanilla)
- all the spam in the in-game chat channels
- all the spam in forums (thinly veiled)
- people random spamming in public games
- the D3 vanilla random friend request with spam RMT adverts
- random whisper spams from some random friend of a friend
- random whisper spam in public games
- idiots who attempt to violate clan rules by advertising their wares in clan chat only to get booted but have no regard cuz they are only interested in the money
- all of the flinging of pseudo clever internet slang insults used as intimidation and peer pressure tactics (ex: snowflake, fan boy, beta male, casuals, CC Warrior)
- all the cyber bullying based on not having “the” best gear because a player would not spend real money to acquire it
- all of the botting driven by player greed
…the list goes on and on. To avoid all of this foolishness I have to purposefully avoid social interaction, mute people, leave chat channels, abandon public games, abandon public chat channels, etc., etc.?
No thank you. Open trade was ruined because people were only out for the money. They were no longer playing a Diablo game. They were busy playing Diablo Day Trader and flipping items. This is what went on in D3 and D2. I stopped playing D2 online because of it. There was a point in D3 vanilla where many of my friends were fed up with all the spam crap and RMAH stuff. They just stopped logging in for months. I convince a few of them to possibly come back if Blizz would implement a Solo Self-Found (SSF) mode. SSF never happened and they didn’t come back to D3. The auction house shutdown and the limited trading implementation inspired enough confidence in Blizz to bring many of them back. The devs said at BlizzCon that they have no intention of adding a SSF mode to D4 and I no longer have the patience to carry that struggle.
Again we have been through this twice (D2 and D3 vanilla). We know how this will turn out. We don’t need it. Now if they devs want to grant my entire wish list there is a good chance an off-line single player community will emerge. You might get your open trading in that scenario as well. The player community will remain bifurcated because of open trade and all the crap that comes with it. At least everyone gets most of what they want and will be happy for a time.
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it’s important to keep Diablo an aRPG;
-not to make it a profit base for inside and outside criminals.
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Ok first off public chat should always be turned off as far as I am concerned. If I wanted to talk to people then I would be out hanging out with people. Not hidden away in a dark room all by myself.
I dont really care about the drop rate. If the game is fun and the story good then I will play the game.
Spam happens. Deal with it.
With what they have said. Even in Town you will almost never run into alot of people. So while yes this will not stop it, it will require twice the amount of work by spammers.
Wouldnt know. I dont allow friends requests at all. What is this farmvill?
Again I highly doubt there will be much but then again its a public game. Just like in real life. You deal with spam everywhere you go.
Human nature is money. But you cant blame them. They are only filling a need. If players valued the journey more then the so called bragging rights then it wouldnt be an issue.
LMAO really? Name calling. So what. I wont even honor this with more a reply.
Cyber Bulling? See above.
Botting will always happen. Deal with it.
Now to close this. I dont care either way. As I said. I DO NOT trade at all. If it has no value for me then it has no value at all. So I dont care one way or the other.
Traders, go trade on the market, leave D4 alone )
Way too much assumptions. Just because you don’t want to use the public chat function should not be a requirement of everyone. Those who wish to use the public chat should not have to endure being completely drowned out of the chat channel because of spam adverts.
Thank you for that succinct command. I am handling it by attempting to kill it off. Not at the leaf, the stem or the root. I’m attempting to stop it from germinating at the seed. I notice you have a similar approach to handling spam. You don’t engage at all in public chat channels. The difference between us is that I want to use chat for chatting about stuff that pertains to the game and not about trading items or RMT transactions for in-game items.
The amount of work spammers will need to create and sustain spam will not be much effort because they will employ chat spam bots. Maybe you don’t know about this. A good example would be for you to play PoE and see the rampant spam in their chat channels; especially trade chat. Its a rapidly rolling text channel due to the massive flood of advert spam.
No I do not deal with spam everywhere I go. I don’t watch regular television. 99% of any cable TV watching is pre-recorded and all commercials/adverts are skipped. I run ad-block on my home PCs and mobile devices. There are content filters covering corporate internet use, which prevent adverts. I do not watch youtube without ad-block and I only temporarily disabled it to allow monetization for a very select few videos. Videos by Anthony Evans, Bluddshed, J Macc, Wolfcryer, Lord Fluffy, Rhykker, etc. are watched with ad-block disabled because I like and support their content.
YOU are welcome to deal with spam everywhere YOU go. No thank you. I’ll disable it without having to disengage and in a nearly effortless manner.
The above is a false statement. Greed is not an innate, predetermined, hardwired human trait. It is only 1 of many human emotional states/responses. The need to brag is not hardwired human trait either. There is no need for Diablo Day Trading. Let them go find a job or pedal their wares some where else. I hear you can get rich in PoE with 3rd party item trading. The JSP folks must be falling over themselves with the flow of real money from in-game items.
What is this name calling you speak of. Please elaborate. Just in case you might think I’m some thin-skinned, acne afflicted pre-teen, you would be mistaken. Cyber bullying harms not just the victim but cultivates a climate of hostility that harms the community. It makes legit discourse unnecessarily difficult. We should not be burdened by the deliberate immature behavior by others. This injury to the community will drive paying customers away. We pay good real money to enjoy the game, so we should be able to enjoy it unencumbered. We should not have to deal with it. Cyber bullying coupled with spam adverts amounts to a form of pollution. The real world does not mean a hostile, continuously threatening environment.
I think you should direct your commands at Blizzard. I don’t get paid to deal with it. You really like that “Deal with it” phrase.
For someone who doesn’t care either way you spent quite a bit of words to communicate that you hold a strong opinion and thus care. Its a veiled attempt to conceal injury. Its ok to care.
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But this is just not true at all, at least in terms of gear progression relative to clearing end game content.