For those worried about trading. Dont. If it doesnt make in then people will complain. If trading does then there will be a huge drive for bots and people to make them up so people can make a little cash on the side. Win win.
Ok seriously though. If you dont want trading then do what I do and dont trade. I didnt trade in d2 when it was added and I wont in d4. If the item has no use to me and I dont have plans on making one that will use it then it goes right to the local vendor or broken down. Sure there will be people that will buy the best gear. So what. They cheap themselves out of any real game play. The only down side i see would be the same gear shaming that happens in WoW but that is a different issue with blizzard.
The problem with trade is that there is a high chance drop rates will take it into account. I mean…the trade barons won’t be happy if all their items are “too common” or “worthless”, will they? This means that players who prefer to find their own items get the short end of the stick.
If some kind of middle ground can be reached so that those who don’t want to trade can still gear up at a decent rate and those who want to trade can still enjoy that side of the game, that would be ideal, but I’m not sure that kind of balance is even possible.
One of the biggest problems with the D3V AH was that it condensed the loot from an entire region into an easily-searchable format. It didn’t matter how rare an item was - with thousands or tens of thousands (or millions?) of players all dumping loot into the same interface, everything was common…and that was with drop rates that were ludicrously crappy.
Any D4 trading system needs to have some sort of limit in place on how many players can contribute to it, so that item availability is satisfying enough for the trading experience without totally screwing over the self-found loot hunt the way D3V did.
I don’t care if people use third party sites or whip out the ol’ Visa for some new gear. I do care a hell of a lot about whether the trading system screws over my preference to find my own gear.
It’s okay to prefer one system over the other (trade vs self-found) but it’s not okay to ignore the other system in favor of your own preference. That just makes you look like a dink.
What do you mean by gear up at a decent rate though? You can easily balance the game for both players who trade and don’t trade and still be able to gear at a decent rate. Are you meaning like get the GG BIS items at a decent rate solo?
You cant though. Trading is significantly more efficient than not-trading. Likely in the range of 10-100x more efficient.
The two paths of gear progression will be extremely far from each other.
If you try to find a middleground in that, you likely end up frustrating both groups - with traders feeling the droprate is too high, flooding the market, making everything nearly worthless, and non-traders never finding any of the best items for their builds.
This is one of those hard-to-explain areas because it means something different for everybody. For me it falls under the “doesn’t need to be as fast as D3 now, but self-found shouldn’t restrict build choice as much as it does in PoE”.
My average the last few Seasons for leveling and getting my 6-piece of choice and most or all of the supplemental items to make the build really work has probably fallen in the 12-ish hours range. I work full time and outside of the first week of a Season I play very casually, usually finishing a Season between 600-700 paragon. Even so, the gearing process feels…clunky? I don’t know how to best describe it. With the insane multipliers on gear, there are very obvious breakpoints where you can feel your build get more powerful.
If D4 does away with the ludicrous multipliers on gear and shifts a lot of the power potential to rares (as in D2) it wouldn’t matter to me if it took 2-3x as long for my build to “feel” complete, because there wouldn’t be such drastic leaps in power and because it would feel like I was incrementally upgrading a lot more often. Also note that for me a build feeling complete does not mean having best-of-the-best items (i.e. perfect Ancients or Primals in D3’s terms). It means the build can handle all the (PVE) content. I don’t PVP so I can’t speak to that. Hope this helps.
Lmao this is actually so fkn cringe. Streamers don’t necessarily know games better than anyone else. There are people who have way more hours invested into ARPGs with a better understanding of game design than any of those.
I follow where you’re coming from, but I’m not entirely convinced this is the solution either because it completely alienates anyone who falls on the fence one way or the other - for example, players who don’t mind the occasional trade but prefer to find most of their gear themselves, or players who play with one or more friends or family members and only ever trade amongst themselves.
Based on what we’ve seen of D4 so far, with the idea that cities/camps/towns will be more densely populated and the open wildnerness less so, it sounds like Blizzard will be leveraging something similar to WoW’s sharding technology to control player populations in various areas of the game. Maybe something along that line can be leveraged for trading as well, although I will admit to having zero idea how to even begin to implement it.
If the number of players feeding into a trading environment can somehow be capped or limited, the feeling of items being more rare (and thus more valuable) can be maintained to an extent, especially if coupled with the “trade once, then bind to player” mechanic that has been tossed around. If such an environment is possible, there would be no need to segment out the playerbase into fully separate game modes.
I get that the solution I’d love to see is probably extremely unlikely, but I still feel that there’s some sort of compromise possible that doesn’t step on a bunch of players in the process.
drop rates will most likely be affected (look at D2 and D3 vanilla)
all the spam in the in-game chat channels
all the spam in forums (thinly veiled)
people random spamming in public games
the D3 vanilla random friend request with spam RMT adverts
random whisper spams from some random friend of a friend
random whisper spam in public games
idiots who attempt to violate clan rules by advertising their wares in clan chat only to get booted but have no regard cuz they are only interested in the money
all of the flinging of pseudo clever internet slang insults used as intimidation and peer pressure tactics (ex: snowflake, fan boy, beta male, casuals, CC Warrior)
all the cyber bullying based on not having “the” best gear because a player would not spend real money to acquire it
all of the botting driven by player greed
…the list goes on and on. To avoid all of this foolishness I have to purposefully avoid social interaction, mute people, leave chat channels, abandon public games, abandon public chat channels, etc., etc.?
No thank you. Open trade was ruined because people were only out for the money. They were no longer playing a Diablo game. They were busy playing Diablo Day Trader and flipping items. This is what went on in D3 and D2. I stopped playing D2 online because of it. There was a point in D3 vanilla where many of my friends were fed up with all the spam crap and RMAH stuff. They just stopped logging in for months. I convince a few of them to possibly come back if Blizz would implement a Solo Self-Found (SSF) mode. SSF never happened and they didn’t come back to D3. The auction house shutdown and the limited trading implementation inspired enough confidence in Blizz to bring many of them back. The devs said at BlizzCon that they have no intention of adding a SSF mode to D4 and I no longer have the patience to carry that struggle.
Again we have been through this twice (D2 and D3 vanilla). We know how this will turn out. We don’t need it. Now if they devs want to grant my entire wish list there is a good chance an off-line single player community will emerge. You might get your open trading in that scenario as well. The player community will remain bifurcated because of open trade and all the crap that comes with it. At least everyone gets most of what they want and will be happy for a time.
Ok first off public chat should always be turned off as far as I am concerned. If I wanted to talk to people then I would be out hanging out with people. Not hidden away in a dark room all by myself.
I dont really care about the drop rate. If the game is fun and the story good then I will play the game.
Spam happens. Deal with it.
With what they have said. Even in Town you will almost never run into alot of people. So while yes this will not stop it, it will require twice the amount of work by spammers.
Wouldnt know. I dont allow friends requests at all. What is this farmvill?
Again I highly doubt there will be much but then again its a public game. Just like in real life. You deal with spam everywhere you go.
Human nature is money. But you cant blame them. They are only filling a need. If players valued the journey more then the so called bragging rights then it wouldnt be an issue.
LMAO really? Name calling. So what. I wont even honor this with more a reply.
Cyber Bulling? See above.
Botting will always happen. Deal with it.
Now to close this. I dont care either way. As I said. I DO NOT trade at all. If it has no value for me then it has no value at all. So I dont care one way or the other.
Way too much assumptions. Just because you don’t want to use the public chat function should not be a requirement of everyone. Those who wish to use the public chat should not have to endure being completely drowned out of the chat channel because of spam adverts.
Thank you for that succinct command. I am handling it by attempting to kill it off. Not at the leaf, the stem or the root. I’m attempting to stop it from germinating at the seed. I notice you have a similar approach to handling spam. You don’t engage at all in public chat channels. The difference between us is that I want to use chat for chatting about stuff that pertains to the game and not about trading items or RMT transactions for in-game items.
The amount of work spammers will need to create and sustain spam will not be much effort because they will employ chat spam bots. Maybe you don’t know about this. A good example would be for you to play PoE and see the rampant spam in their chat channels; especially trade chat. Its a rapidly rolling text channel due to the massive flood of advert spam.
No I do not deal with spam everywhere I go. I don’t watch regular television. 99% of any cable TV watching is pre-recorded and all commercials/adverts are skipped. I run ad-block on my home PCs and mobile devices. There are content filters covering corporate internet use, which prevent adverts. I do not watch youtube without ad-block and I only temporarily disabled it to allow monetization for a very select few videos. Videos by Anthony Evans, Bluddshed, J Macc, Wolfcryer, Lord Fluffy, Rhykker, etc. are watched with ad-block disabled because I like and support their content.
YOU are welcome to deal with spam everywhere YOU go. No thank you. I’ll disable it without having to disengage and in a nearly effortless manner.
The above is a false statement. Greed is not an innate, predetermined, hardwired human trait. It is only 1 of many human emotional states/responses. The need to brag is not hardwired human trait either. There is no need for Diablo Day Trading. Let them go find a job or pedal their wares some where else. I hear you can get rich in PoE with 3rd party item trading. The JSP folks must be falling over themselves with the flow of real money from in-game items.
What is this name calling you speak of. Please elaborate. Just in case you might think I’m some thin-skinned, acne afflicted pre-teen, you would be mistaken. Cyber bullying harms not just the victim but cultivates a climate of hostility that harms the community. It makes legit discourse unnecessarily difficult. We should not be burdened by the deliberate immature behavior by others. This injury to the community will drive paying customers away. We pay good real money to enjoy the game, so we should be able to enjoy it unencumbered. We should not have to deal with it. Cyber bullying coupled with spam adverts amounts to a form of pollution. The real world does not mean a hostile, continuously threatening environment.
I think you should direct your commands at Blizzard. I don’t get paid to deal with it. You really like that “Deal with it” phrase.
For someone who doesn’t care either way you spent quite a bit of words to communicate that you hold a strong opinion and thus care. Its a veiled attempt to conceal injury. Its ok to care.
That’s like saying having open parties and clans are harmful to the game. Because people will use it to boost eachother and carry eachother through content.
Yeah it is, boosting services are a valid 3rd party black market service under the list you mentioned. Imagine getting rid of entire systems just to prevent 2.5% of the population from abusing it, hurting the other majority of players. Blizzard has the resources to stop people using D2jsp.
If theres no trading what’s the point of solo players even having an online connection? To prevent them from reading files and scripting/cheating? Even though they’re solo players? These philosophies you’re bringing up in order to prevent every single person from possibly buying power with real money through 3rd party vendors is exactly what hurt diablo 3 and lead it to be such a dead game where no one even wants to play with each other.
It is not D2jsp that is the problem. The entire trading system is.
There is none? Well, none from a player perspective anyway. From Blizzards perspective, it being online makes it much easier to sell cosmetics to people.
Take a look at what you just said. Please take 5 minutes of your day to critically analyze what you just suggested and see if you can find anything wrong with what you just said.
What the hell am I even trying to convince you for. You are so far gone I’d really be surprised if you can find ANY top-level diablo 1, 2, or 3 player to agree with you.
Literally every single streamer I’ve watched (People who actually spend 100s of hours on the game) have ALL disagreed with you.
You fail to bring up any valid logic backing up your arguments.
You can’t expand on how trading will hurt the game, you literally just point your finger at black market and bots, which you literally can’t even explain how the two go hand in hand.
You are just spamming the same thing while players like me tell you reasons why trading needs to be in the game to make it successful.
List me your counter arguments because you told me that all of my arguments aren’t valid and your argument invalidates everything I said. I went to look for your argument and you literally posted nothing.
Back yourself up. Let me see your reasoning. And don’t just give me a one sentence troll answer.
At this point I can’t even tell if you’re serious.
Oh noes. That sounds horrible. Our god lord streamers have a different opinion
Trading takes you out of the gameplay. Instead of going out in the world killing stuff, you go to an auction house, a poe.trade style website, a forum or whatever. Not fun.
Trading hurts the loot progression. Instead of finding interesting gear for your character, or interesting gear that makes you start new characters who can use those items, you find random stuff, sell it and go buy yourself some power jumps. You end up with a devalued gameplay experience, made too easy and too boring by the immense efficiency of trading.
But you can just choose not to trade? Technically, sure. But if the game is balanced around abusing trading, not really. You just end up playing a worse game, because gear progression is not as it was intended.
