Pls make PC native 64-bit Linux D4 game client @ release

General Discussion
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Desktop Linux has dramatically evolved since the 1990s. Linux represents a continuous blossoming of diversity and evolution. While Linux runs on both 32-bit and 64-bit hardware (both Intel/AMD and non Intel/AMD), my focus for the sake of this post is the 64-bit (x64) AMD/Intel platform (PC hardware platform). This is the same Intel, AMD, nVidia, PC platform that Windows 7/8/8.1/10 runs on.

The fact that the hardware platform is the same gives devs a huge advantage. The difference being the underlying OS, kernel, API libraries and development tools (compilers, debuggers, profilers, etc). However, even in this difference there is close similarity. There are C/C++ compilers, debuggers, profilers, and other relevant development tools for both platforms. Some of these tools exist on both platforms right now and have been for many years.

As an example of the similarities from a developer perspective, some of the id software team, who developed the very successful Doom 2016 game, had a fully functional native Linux version of the game internally. Here is a quote from an article detailing this:

“So we did Linux dedicated servers for Doom 2016 and a few of us who are Linux heads in the studio decided, let’s take it the full way. All we had to do was change the surface that we are creating for the Linux version and it just ran, out of the box and performance was equivalent. Having a small driver actually helps a lot there.”

The article: ~https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/doom-2016-could-have-been-on-linux-id-software-made-a-linux-version-sound-easy-to-do.11465~

I currently have Windows 10 and 64-bit Manjaro Linux KDE setup in a dual boot configuration. The only reason to boot into the Windows 10 installation is for Blizzard games. If I could get my Blizzard games as native 64-bit Linux apps., I would have no need to keep Windows 10 around. This means I have a dedicated Blizzard games installation.

As I’ve stated in another post:

The above is the same PC hardware platform for both entertainment and non-entertainment purposes. There is no reason to spend money on a limited use, disposable hardware platform with a 3-6 year life span. I also don’t do mobile gaming beyond Sudoku.

Since D4 is in its early stages of development there is time to make robust plans for a Linux release. The time to strike is when the iron is hot, which is prior to release and at the point of release.

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It would be nice to have a Linux client. I heave d3 on the console and the PC version. I didn’t buy d3 on the PC until last year when I found a statement that blizzard wasn’t banning for people for using wine, that those who were banned were using other stuff and them running on Linux didn’t have anything to do with it.

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I avoid using WINE. With respect to Blizzard games and their launcher, the use of WINE has a high chance to encounter a lack of access to the games. This is generally caused by frequent updates to the games and the launcher. I simply do not have the patience or time to troubleshoot issues between WINE, Blizzard’s launcher and their games.

The presence of WINE has been used like a doubled-edged sword. On one hand, WINE’s presence is used to support not making native Linux ports of apps./games (after a release). In effect, why spend the time and money to make a native Linux port when you have WINE? On the other hand, WINE’s presence is used as an argument for not making native Linux versions of apps./games as a development priority (prior to release of any version). This amounts to a do not port and do not develop set of arguments that are effectively two sides of the same coin.

Notice we don’t hear such arguments made when players of one console platform request that apps./games be brought over to their platform of choice (ex: Playstation user wants an xbox game brought to Playstation and the reverse). Obviously, if the target platform of the request were a defunct console platform then the request would be disregarded. We generally don’t hear Playstation users being told to just go buy and Xbox to get access to games (with a few exceptions). We also don’t hear Mac users being told go out and buy or build a PC just to run PC games. Just based on the cost of Mac hardware I would expect that suggestion to be disregarded.

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Yeah I played D3 pretty heavily on Wine for about 6 months. It worked better than I expected, but I encountered the odd issue (I remember having some problems when alt-tabbing). I dual-boot now, and for the most part use Windows for gaming. So I haven’t played D3 on Linux w/ Wine in quite some time now.

I’d definitely be keen to have a native Linux client for D4. I don’t know how likely it is though. Would be a pleasant surprise, but I’m not counting on it.

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The problem is that there is not one version of Linux. There are thousands of distributions and versions of a distribution. Each distribution as another combination of software libraries. Sometimes distribution A has version 1.0.0 and library X while distribution B has version 1.5.0.
There have been some huge changes between the versions which make the code using this library incompatible. Sometimes it is even worse and distribution B has an entirely different library to solve a certain problem. The library can do more or less the same but the API is completely different.

The only way blizzard could do this is if they picked a version of linux and built a gaming os from the ground up to work with their game code.
This would bring with it a ton of advantages as well if they decided to make FPS game because they could actually create a white and black list of what apps can run while a game is running… Thusly eliminating aimbot use on pc or making it extremely difficult to use.
They could then market a game os and allow other developers to plug their game right into the os and charging them to do it.
Think of it like a console os like the ps4 but it would run like this… You click on blizzard game in windows, it runs an executeable, reboots your pc and fires up something similar to linux live drive which then launches you straight into a game… You would have zero access to windows, no hacks no bs…You have to have oem software/code to run on it… hard to hack etc… They would have complete control over the game environment very much like a console os.

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There’s some ways to get around that problem. For example, they could build and package it as a Snap or Flatpak. The purpose of Snap and Flatpak is specifically to address that issue: bundling programs with their dependencies so that they are distribution-agnostic.

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That would certainly be a waste of time for something useless like that

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You are sadly miss informed. There are many distros. but there is no need to target all of them (I’ll provide a list for reference purposes in a min). While one can have trouble with varying libraries, this is more easily solved by setting up a system requirements list.

Look at the quote from the article. The devs. at id Software had a working windows game on Linux natively with a small set of changes to the code and basically a recompile. It wasn’t just functional, the performance was equivalent on Linux and Windows.

In addition to the system requirements idea, Blizz could partner with an organization that has expertise in Linux gaming.

~http://www.feralinteractive.com/en/linux-games/~

These aren’t simple, old 2d, low graphics quality games. These are high resolution, high polygon count, AAA quality games that match or exceed the performance of their Windows counterparts. The games run on multiple distros all with the same levels of performance or very minor variations. Blizz has already partnered with Netease for their work in China so, partnering with Feral from the beginning would be a logical move that gains them time, by hiring experts. As Tinne noted there are the snap and flat pack options, but these are rendered mostly unecessary.

Its funny you mentioned the idea that Blizz would need to build their own distro from the ground up and have their Linux games tailored to it. This path has already been explored. There are a few gaming focused/optimized distros and then there is Steam OS. :slight_smile:

Fortunately for us there is little need for a custom gaming only distro. All I need to do is install a distro, I’ll pick either Manjaro or Linux Mint, install Steam, install my game, and play. Partnering with Steam is yet another option.

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As much as I love Linux at my work station, it is NOT a consumer OS and it is NOT for games.
Even the friendliest of distributions is still not good for a consumer.

I don’t know why you’d ever want to make it into a gaming platform other than proving a point and being an elitist.

It’s like bringing an industrial tractor to F1 racing and demanding that it be allowed to compete.

Linux has its applications that it is good at. Linux has its shortcomings where it’s bad. I don’t see why it needs to be able to do everything - I’m all for it to remain a specialized platform.

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I have been able to play every single game of the launcher using wine + DXVK (the directx to vulkan wrapper) with awesome framerate (much better than using opengl for example, and with no noticeable difference from running it in Windows, at least in my machine). I tested all of them except the call of duty ones, and they all worked flawlessly. And it’s trivially easy to install with Lutris.

Just do what Steam does: officially support Ubuntu’s major LTS releases because it’s the most popular one, and whoever wants to use a different distro has to deal with the dependencies themselves. Chances are, if you’re not using Ubuntu or Fedora you’re probably an advanced Linux user and can deal with that yourself. For example, I use Arch, and I’ve come to accept that it’s not going to be officially supported by most stuff, and that I’ll likely be recompiling libs on occasion.

Also, and this should be obvious, you can distribute apps packed with their own runtime .so libraries. Again, Steam does that.

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False information ^^.

Linux is and has been for more than 10 years, ready for gaming. If you can watch DVDs/Blu-Ray movies, listen to music, and give commands to an application via input devices (keyboard, mouse, bat wing controller), then you can play games. The fact that nVidia has fully embraced making native optimized Linux drivers for their video card products, means full 3D acceleration. AMD has been supporting Linux for a while now with optimized video drivers. Even better is that we have the Vulkan API, which is an open standard. Its on Windows, Mac, Linux, and many other platforms. Vulkan can outperform DX12. :slight_smile:

Your industrial tractor example is backwards. Linux would be the F1 racing card with a jet engine, while windows would be big, slow tractor, and yes I’m talking about Windows 7, 8, 8.1, and 10. You are welcome to backup your claim about what Linux is bad at.

There is no need to be elitist or prove any points. Steam/Valve, Feral Interactive, nVidia, AMD, Intel, and Google (and many others) have already proven the points about viability. Keep in mind Google is far into the development of Stadia, its Linux based console-like online gaming service (google it). There are plenty of newbie friendly distros. to choose from and multiple desktop environments for them. This allows a single distro to be friendly toward Windows, Mac, and Unix folks. I recommend Linux Mint, Manjaro, and Pop!-OS for newbies. Steam comes pre-installed on Manjaro.

@Vaalix:
I did say that I would provide a list of distro’s for reference purposes.

@Oshogun:

While this maybe true now. All it takes is a patch or two from Blizzard to break the setup. Besides I like having support, and I support developers/publishers who make native Linux games by purchasing their games. The exception being is that if the game is of no interest to me or the end product on the Linux side is crappy, then they get no $$ from me. Blizz has a reputation for quality and polish in their games so I don’t think they will disappoint in that department. I would be willing to toss a couple dollars to get native Linux versions of their existing games. The one game I have little expectation of a native Linux port is WoW. I just don’t think Blizz has the balls to bring it to Linux. They are just way too scared for what ever reason. D4, D3, War3-TFT, War3 Reforged, SC-2, SC-Remastered, D2-LoD, Overwatch, Hearthstone, HotS, CoD are ripe for migration to Linux. The key is targeting Vulkan. Targeting Vulkan is pretty EZ.

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It can happen, but it’s unlikely. I’ve been able to run those games for the last 4 or 5 years under linux with no issues.

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Straight from Lutris:
~https://lutris.net/games/diablo-iii/~

There are minor issues and caveats. Its not something insurmountable or requiring herculean effort. The point is I don’t want to or have the time to tinker, and I want to run native 64-bit software. My wife’s old core2duo based PC (circa 2008) is running a 64-bit processor and runs faster in Linux. I don’t want Windows. I don’t want translation layers, fancy windows software wrappers, or emulators; not even 32-bit to 64-bit translation. Just plain, simple, optimized, efficient, raw 64-bit native Linux executables.

WINE is a wonderful translation layer, a testament to Linux’s viability, and was intended to provide a means of crossing the lack of access gap. It should have been a seen as a temporary fix and a proof of concept, to motivate and inspire developers/publishers to bring their software to Linux. Instead the robustness of WINE is being used as an excuse for not bringing their software to Linux. Every excuse imaginable, motivated by fear, ignorance, and laziness, has been levied as a reason to not have Linux as a target platform.

The laziness, fear, and misinformation started back in the 1990’s. We are more than 20 years beyond that point. Even Microsoft has given up. The old joke of MS-Linux is a reality. Yes, boys and girls, Microsoft has their own Linux distro and I’m not talking about Windows 10. They have effectively forfeited the struggle against the little engine that could. However, their forfeit was made real when they released Windows 10 for free. Win-10 couldn’t compete with Win-7 and Linux had already eclipsed Win-7.

The last fleeting holdouts are the Windows application software developers/publishers like Blizzard and Adobe. Thankfully I only use Flash and Acrobat Reader, and both are on Linux.

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I understand your stance on wine, doesn’t is the only have I bought that isn’t a Linux native. Before dxvk it was a pain, with updates braking things, and having to wait for fixes. But since dxvk the game has run flawlessly. I don’t use Lutris, I have wine staying installed from the repo, and dxvk installed from aur, I’m also using Manjaro, I get 60-80 fps at 1920x1080 with high settings and 8xAA on my rx460.

OT but feral released a vulkan update for Shadow of Mordor, and it doubled my fps in that game, vulkan is fantastic.

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it’s hard to convince any developer to make a client for a minuscule % of the PC userbase

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Oh snap thanks. I haven’t loaded Shadow of Mordor in quite a while. I’ll be loading it up just to experience the improved performance. Does your WINE/dmvk setup have any impact (positive or negative) on Steam or Steam games? Have you tried installing/running the Blizz Launcher and D3 through Steam Proton?

@MarioDragon:

More false information ^^. You have absolutely no means to accurately determine the number Linux gamers. Any windows user is by definition a possible Linux user. WINE makes it so. However, let’s test your theory.

Windows to Linux Sales Comparison: Nope. Sorry. A single download of any of the myriad of distros. can be used to install and unlimited number of desktops/laptops. Linux is available as a free download. Unfortunately, most people who buy a new PC will buy it with Windows because all they know is Windows and Apple macs. If they don’t know how to use a Mac they tend to just use what they are familiar with, which is Windows. Users stick with Windows until I come along with a USB key or DVD. I install Linux, breath new life into their 6+ year old slow, lethargic, bloated, mostly malware infested, cripple Windows PC. I save them anywhere from $600 to $1500 which contributes to the decline in new PC sales and an increase in the newbie Linux user count.

Windows to Linux License Comparison: Nope… failed again. Licensing generally is only involved in server side Linux distros. (ex: Red Hat Linux) and other proprietary software. Server implementations tend to come with support contracts thus some licensing strategy might be used, especially if proprietary software is being deployed (ex: Novell’s GroupWise email client and/or server products).

Windows to Linux Web Usage Statistics Comparison: Fail again broski. There are browser add-ons to mask the browser/OS/platform of the client. This is part of a strategy to obscure and anonymize the client/user. Also, this fails because of why Google Chrome is the most used browser on the planet. Chrome is installed by default on Android smartphones. Android is just a custom Linux distro. running on mobile devices. To get an sense of the scale, here is an excerpt from a Forbes article:

Apple sold 215.8 million iPhones in calendar 2017, and IDC estimates that there were 1.244 billion Android smartphones shipped during the year.

The Forbes article:
~Apple's iOS Loyalty Rate Is Lower Than Google's Android, But Apple May Steal More Users Each Year

This just means Linux has way more deployments and consumer use through Andriod than Apple iPhones and this completely eclipses PC, Xbox, and PS-4 sales.

Windows to Linux Market Share Comparison: This fails for the same reason that a sales or licensing argument fails. Microsoft can track licenses in use through Windows Update. Linux distros. do not have a need to track this information.

Ubuntu, violated this with its recent release. I don’t use Ubuntu because my activity is none of their business. The equipment I use, my IP address, the country I’m downloading or installing from are off limits to them. Go back and watch the movie 300, where the Persian King demands an innocuous tribute of earth and water. See how the Spartans respond. My contribution comes in the form of testing, reporting, and the education of others. This builds community. I also support companies who port and make native Linux software with my $$.

I could elaborate further, but I believe I’ve debunked your statement. Please, provide alternative arguments, because all of our PC gaming sisters and bro’s need to see for themselves. Microsoft already did a Roberto Duran (“No Mas”).
Come to the dark side Mario.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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It does not affect steam, the steam stuff is all self contained.

I haven’t had a need to try to let it through proton since it just works with wine staging + dxvk. When my daughter will let me play on the computer I’ll give it a go.

ETA: that was super easy, I pointed steam to the d3 executable and it loaded it with proton. No fuss, no muss. The performance is the same with my regular wine, and I get controller support through steam, so it’ll be easier for me to play on the PC without pain.

Thanks BossDog, that was a very helpful question. :grin:

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Just so folks understand, the Shadow of Modor game has a Linux Native version of the game. The publisher along with Feral Interactive released an update to the game to enable Vulkan support, Vulkan being a cross platform API and open standard. Vulkan is a key component in making high performance games for multiple platforms.

There is plenty of nerd factor involved in Linux. The beauty is that one is not forced to become a Linux nerd to make use of Linux, much like using Windows doesn’t require one to become a Windows nerd. However, there is plenty to learn, discover, enjoy, and get excited about with Linux so, one is free to go as far as they wish. If gaming is as far as one wants to go, Steam provides the point, click, play experience the same as Windows. WINE and Proton allow Windows games/apps. to run on Linux by tricking the apps into thinking they are running on Windows.

Let’s keep the Linux gaming and Diablo discussion going.

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that’s a very strange minority essay you’ve got going there. you’re a minuscule %, not a lot to argue about that. Nobody uses linux my friend. .8% on steam hardware survey, and a political-worthy essay on how you’re somehow not a miniscule % lmao

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100% facts, super weird thing to do right?