Forcing people to play your way

Diablo II: Resurrected General Discussion
883

He is no doubt counting the ones that talk about ploot. So their voices matter as well as the ones here on the forums or even other social media like Reddit. Counting each one matters whether you give that person credence or not doesn’t matter.

Take a look at D3’s brawling, didn’t that end up a lot different than the Arena Team Death Matches that Jay’s team talked about?

So out of all other games and remasters that have existed or will exist. D2R has to accomplish the impossible. It has to please everyone, yes I mean everyone where they want to play it. Trying to please everyone will mean you wind up pleasing no one as the saying goes.

Getting enough money is sales to cover the cost of making it. Along with possible enough cost to keep maintaining the servers is all that is needed.

I highly doubt that this is the type of game that is for the sheer purpose of players spending their entire game time playing D2R and only D2R for decades to come.

It is just a stop gap till hold us over along with D3 till Diablo Immortal and D4 launch. Then it will be used by players to take breaks from playing any other Diablo game.

Realm of Trials for D3, they just didn’t assume they possibly tried every iteration they could think of to make it work. Eventually they removed it, same for group mf for D3 that didn’t pan out.

There are some things that don’t need to be tried because they are a horrible idea from the start. There would be no iteration that could make it work.

The reason it is the most logical is because it is the easiest and the most fair type of ploot. But has the danger of making a well coordinated group of 8 to be more efficient at getting loot than a solo player could do.

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884

Good points. Just a minor quibble: the sales have to cover developement, O&M costs (including servers, patching, etc.) and meet company targets for revenue AND profits - unless the company is making a “strategic investment” on the title, willing to lose money on it.

Given Blizz’ precarious future financial state, I can’t imagine any CEO/COO/CFO allowing a strategic investment right now. If anything, they’ll squeeze every penny of profit from D2R for war chests they’ll likely need when damages from many pending lawsuits are awarded.

To me, this means that D2R will likely receive much less support than it would otherwise enjoy, based on sales performance. They’ll rob Peter (D2R profits) to pay Paul (many, many lawyers and even a few victims).

This puts the need for even more D2R sales and retention. Every person who refunds or looks at these forums and refuses to purchase (as my son did) means even more bugs that won’t get fixed, updates won’t happen, new content won’t happen, etc.

No suit looks at this scope of time. Only thing that matters is next quarter (profits) and next year (revenue). But, they will look at player retention to determine if D2R is worth patching or not.

If the average “returning” player gets their nostalgic fix and drops out after 20 hours, they’ll see that as a heuristic and budget server load at those expectations.

If the average “new” player drop out after 10, they’ll add that into the mix as well.

These number will drive how much discretionary dollars (and face it, almost all O&M dollars are discretionary, straight off the top) Blizz will “waste” on D2R.

So, everyone, please play nice, and try to find ways to bring more players into the game, and help keep them here.

885

If they add a ploot that gives everyone the same number of drops, then that would not be what most ploot people want.

I’ve honestly not seen anyone here asking for an increase in drop rates. I don’t scour the internet looking for bad ways to implement ploot nor will I comment on bad forms of ploot not mentioned on these boards.

We can only hope this is true.

I think people are looking at this in the wrong way. They can add changes that you can opt out of and still preserve the essence of D2.

I don’t play D2 with anyone else. I have no friends that play this game. Me not liking it isn’t the problem. The problem isn’t about what I like. It’s that a FFA with a verbal agreement isn’t ploot. You are comparing two things that simply aren’t the same.

I don’t even know what this argument is supposed to mean. I was just showing how silly your initial argument was. The reality is, you don’t know what I want or how I will play. You are basing an argument on assumptions that have no relevance in anything.

Are you now saying the multiplayer is good for farming loot if it’s FFA? Because that would be the exact opposite of every argument to this point.

There are different aspects to socialization. Playing is one, trading is another. Some people like to play with others. You are telling them that, in your opinion, they either bring friends or play under a loot system that may not work for them for no reason other than you don’t feel they should get an option of a different loot system.

Uh, divide 100 by 8 and you get 12.5. If you /roll 100 you get a number. That number is who gets the loot in 12.5% increments.

You’d have to copy the quote. I’ve never seen him advocate anything other than a simple allocation on a short timer before becoming FFA.

I am not. I am going off the actual definition of software remastering and I’m going off the fact that they are making changes.

I didn’t read past this because this isn’t D3. Nobody here is asking to make this D3 loot.

When they constantly say they want to preserve D2, yes. Every gameplay change thus far are on toggles.

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886

Statistics. Same chance on loot + (in your mind) less efficient players.
You will figure it out. Just sleep on it a few more nights.

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887

Ah how I love poorly veiled insults - quality of both insult and veil give sort of testimony by themselves.
If you read carefully you will find that I never said that ploot players are less efficient, as a matter of fact I stated that everyone will be forced to play with ploot because it will be more efficient.
Scenario A doesnt exclude scenario B, let me explain - early game group of less experienced poorly geared players will take their time to sort through drops than. as they wont be sure what is good and pretty much everything can be an actual upgrade to their gear. In late game group of experienced players fully geared will be after the same items - therefore there wont be point in waiting till drop will get FFA because if someone didnt pick it then you wont want to pick it too.
Sorry if my explanation is somewhat lacking - I always have difficulties explaining obvious things.

You literally quoted my explanation why I dont have choice, and stated that I do.

This itself is a fact - whatever you, or I state wont change it.
And how does: “and if you don’t like it, don’t play ploot games and your problems are solved” goes with the title of the very thread you created??

I never said you want it for yourself. And you literally did exact thing I mentioned in the quoted part. You stated you want change and that this change will be good for the game.

This is the very issue - I gave argument against your statement your only answer was that it is for plooters so I shouldnt care. After I called you out you stating that argument is baseless.

This are not the valid reasons though are they?, they can do what everyone without premade group was doing for lst 20 years: exp in 8p game, and mf in solo game.

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888

There is no veiled insult.
I gave you an answer and told you to think about it. Clearly you need longer time than others to process these concepts.

Why would it be more effecient? Maybe you want to look over in this thread:

Honest Question for Ploot Advocates
Where people are currently arguing that ploot is too slow to be economically viable.

Maybe you anti-plooters should consolidate your arguments before riding off into opposite horizons with your arguments.

So you are saying ploot is good or bad in this case? Sounds more like an anecdote than a point.

So what are you trying to say? Is it good for ploot or bad for ploot? Again you are just stating something without any relevance of what is being discussed here.

Obviously.

889

Lol dunno why you guys are so desperate for ploot. You’ll probably play one season, fail to get geared and move on to one of blizzards dumbed down games again.

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890

No idea how you could possibly fail at that?

891

21 Years of diablo 2 and 3 years of diablo 1 say otherwise. Next!

892

Most amusing. Ah how I love poorly veiled insults - quality of both insult and veil give sort of testimony by themselves.

Or you can read posts in the thread you decided to post in.

“Scenario A doesnt exclude scenario B […]”

Both are bad for game.

You have no idea how funny that is do you :slight_smile: ?

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893

Read them all. No real spotlights on the anti-ploot side, i am afraid. Mostly dribble.
But feel free to show me otherwise.
Take your time.

Actually in the case of “it is too fast” vs “it is too slow”, it kinda does.

Finding good upgrades when you pass through the story is bad for the game? Are you insane?

Let’s just say it has many layers.

894

Then read again, why should someone else hand you something…oh wait…

Read again

That was not the argument - read again.

That was rhetorical question.

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895

Was debunked looooong ago.
Mutual agreement to share items is not handing out anything. You are just grasping at straws. The shortest and thinnest ones that are lying around on the ground to be honest.
You are basically like a slow looter in a FFA game. All the good straws are already ninja-picked. You only get the sigons belt straw. Not even griswolds edge straw. Let alone a topaz. Just sigons belt.

Maybe spell it out instead of just writing vague statements. If you want your point to be brough across, walk the walk.

896

No it wasn’t. How quickly you figured what “oh wait…” is about, hmm…

No it is not, thats how premade group in FFA operate. Ploot is however bunch of people who want both exp and loot rather, than one, or another.

I spelled them multiple times over last month and so did many others. If you fail to grasp the point explained many times then odds are that one more explanation wont change anything. You also fail at understanding basic things - I am not the one asking for something, you are, therefore " If you want your point to be brought across, walk the walk."

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897

Free hand outs dont exist in ploot.
It is the same as you playing with your friends and agreeing to share loot. No free hand outs. Just people willing to share and enjoying each others company.

Your “free handout” mindset is elitist and not the kind of players who are going into ploot. Ploot is for people who respect their fellow partymembers and do not try to elevate themselves over them in a casual PvE game.

So you are saying premade groups in FFA dont get exp? You are saying they do not want loot and exp?
What the heck is your argument here?
You are literally saying people are doing the very same thing we are asking for. The only difference is that we are making it more accessable. QoL!
You just dismantled your entire point. Congratz.

Odds might also be that your point is just not that good.

Like you failing to accept that a mutual agreement is not free handouts but just a mutual agreement?

You are literally out of arguments. Just trying to shame ploot players while saying in the same breath that you are doing the very same thing in your games. Dishonest. Pathetic.

That is why we are here.

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898

WoW doesn’t work like that.

899

If they had a toggle option to instantly get an enigma, do you think it would be good for the game? What about an option that increased drop rates for HRs by 10,000%? It’s optional so why not?! Let everyone play their own way and don’t toggle the option of you don’t want it!

That’s obviously a crazy example but now you can see why “options” aren’t always a good thing.

So, now to the point. Why do people want to force others to play by the original rules/understanding we all preordered for? The answer is implicit in your question.

Because we want to play a game that is closely similar to the original and options that split a player base will either change the meta everyone plays (I.e not like the original we preordered for) or “un level” the playing field we compare our progress against.

It’s not about you vs me, or us vs them. It’s about getting the version of the game that we know we will want. Only minor QoL is acceptable to make sure changes don’t disrupt that game we know and love.

900

Difference is, your examples are not balanced options. One makes you more powerful than the other. Resulting in a meaningless choice.

FFA and Timed Allocation Loot are balanced.

Separate servers preserves the original game. That is the only way to do that.

901

Agreed with your above first statement. But I don’t agree with separate servers being a good thing or preserving the original.

Let’s start with the fact that the original has been preserved, everyone can play D2 right now. I will not use that argument.

An ideal state of any game is to have a single robust community. Splitting it beyond the splits from the original are unacceptable to me. To give a good example, the split of WoW Classic to TBC killed Classic. Everyone gravitates toward the LCD which will be the “easier” game option. But that’s isn’t necessarily a good thing when you consider time.

Beyond the slippery slope fallacy of creating infinite separate servers to appease every small group of people, which leads to no fommunity existing happily.

902

You indicated multiplayer games with ploot would become better at farming loot. I said it wouldn’t be because drops will still average out.

I didn’t say the same thing as you. I’m not sure how you got that.

Because one gives you the option of FFA or ploot. If you don’t like ploot, then you don’t have to play ploot, but you can if you want. This is call having a choice.

You want to remove that choice by fighting tooth and nail against ploot. This is called not giving people a choice thus “forcing” a ruleset.

How are you lost by this?

You quite literally called it a “change you want”. I want people to have the option. I don’t personally want the change, but I want people to have the option if they want the change.

You really gonna try to play semantics here?

If your arguments had merit, I may not like it but it would be a valid argument. Your arguments have no merit. Me not liking it has nothing to do with it.

They were valid enough for other changes. Inclusiveness wasn’t a concern with gaming back then. It is now and have stated this fact.