Until Blizzard addresses how much harder shuffle is for healers.
Just left perfect example. There was an obvious terrible fury warrior. He was set to go 0-6 and we go 3-3 as healers like 90% of games.
Except that didn’t happen. The BM hunter screwed up and lost sight of me, ending up dead. He kited to the wrong side of the map and put over 60 yards between us. He even admitted he screwed up.
His single screw up wiped out an entire night’s worth of games. And guess what? The BM hunter who screwed up gained points still because of the 1-5 fury war.
No amount of bandaid fixes will get me to heal shuffle again until you look at how healer’s gain in CR relative to dps. 3-3 should not give 0 points if a single 2-4 wipes out an entire nights gains due to this crappy system.
3-3 should absolutely give 0 points. What it should try to avoid though is adjusting/changing your MMR. That’s the issue. 3-3 is exactly middle of the round and awarding rating for it makes no sense unless your MMR is significantly higher.
The problem is going 5-1 and 4-2 a few matches and then hitting a bunch of 3:3 matches. Despite you going even, your MMR is still being brought down. So then when you go 4-2 again, you don’t get as much OR you go 2-4 and you don’t have the extra MMR padding to deaden the loss.
I’d assume the majority of players don’t want this. It would be awful for a bunch of dps specs and would massively favor others.
Which is the vast majority of healer games. This doesn’t happen to dps. It does to healers.
Blizzard is actually going to make queue time worse by this. They are buffing conquest gains. If you can’t climb in majority of your matches and you’re capped, you won’t queue.
Incoming 45 minute queues for popular specs within weeks, mark my words.
I would absolutely love to see this forum if 3-3 suddenly became as common for dps as it is for healers. It would be hilarious how fast everyone would change their stance on this.
all the ideas just don’t address the actual issues that have been said by healers for this whole xpac. at this point, who cares. dps just want fast queues and healers don’t like rss. deal with it
Some dps specs get 3:3 a lot. But, i’d gladly take 3:3 games and get instant queues then wait 30-40 minutes for the healer to leave after the first loss.
If you get a win streak and it puts you at a much higher MMR, your MMR should stay exactly at the same level each time you go 3-3. This would cause your MMR to stay put and your CR would catch up to it, meaning each 3-3 after a win streak is gaining you CR.
RSS just feels like an absolute slog. Probably just my games, but it feels like each match and the next are either no CC whatsoever, or im getting cross CC’d like im playing against a coordinated actual group.
And it feels absolutely terrible to play well, but gain nothing or even lose rating because one specific dps wants to keep diving with no support or defensives.
If you go 3:3 in an MMR match that has a lower average then your MMR, your MMR goes down. If you get unlucky, you can have multiple matches with a lower MMR then your own… to the point you could potentially lose rating.
The system would obviously have to wait way to long to match people with nearly the EXACT same MMR, but the variation should even out as you have a 50/50 chance to be higher or lower then opponents with only a minor discrepancy each time.
It’s just not remotely as common as healer (by design), and anybody that says otherwise has just never played a healer in shuffle for any amount of time that matters.
I’ve gotten both healer and dps over 2400 in shuffle last season and it just isn’t even close to comparable. Sorry.
The 3-3s happened on the dps, but they just weren’t that common. 2-4 and 4-2 were way more common. Meanwhile I could go 5+ lobbies in a row with 3-3s on the healer.
Whether that’s balanced or not in terms of a healer MMR system is irrelevant. It’s demoralizing. And for a role that is already struggling to find people to play it, having a system that is designed to have a demoralizing outcome is just going to make things significantly worse for everyone involved (which is why we see shuffle queue time threads nonstop of these forums).
Let’s say you’re 1800 CR in an 1800 MMR lobby and your MMR is 1900. So the aim of the system is to try and get your MMR and CR to be same… eventually. Well, if you go 3:3 in that match, your 1900 MMR is now going to be like… 1850 or something. Go 3:3 again, and now your MMR is going to be 1825. Not exact, just making a point. If you go 3:3 4-5 times in a row, your MMR and CR are going to be close if not exactly the same.
Now you go 4:2 again… well, your gains are going to be muted because your MMR and CR are the same now. It basically means if you aren’t stringing wins together as a healer, you’re going to have a much harder time getting rating in the long run.
DPS have much more volatile ratings. That said, my SV hunter had way more matches where I went either 6-0 and 0-6 compared to my enhance shaman. Conversely, my enhance shaman had almost NO 0-6 match, but I also rarely got 6-0 matches as well. I think I did almost a 100 matches without going 0-6 or 6-0.
My take on all of this is that healers just need a bit more buffer on how their MMR swings up and down. Like if you can maintain 3:3 matches with 4:2 or better games, your MMR gains SHOULD be better. The aim being to get your into the proper bracket quicker.
I’m not arguing that and I don’t care about your rating experience.
It is common for some DPS to break even. Some specs are just way more volatile than others. Look… I’m arguing for better gains for healers, but I’m also not going to ignore the fact that healers get instant queues. You can hop on at any point and get a game. It’s way more convenient. You don’t get to have it both ways.
Because you get instant queues, you’re going to have to put in more games overall to get your rating, but I’d still hope that the total time in game, waiting or not, is still similar or low then a dps… which is saying a lot.
I’d be glad to back up anything with numbers. In the end, I do want what’s best for healers. I play one. I want to enjoy it. I have a few threads on healers in RSS and I think it’s one of the worst experiences I have had in the game. A lot of that is 100% in the design and I do wish they would fix it. =/
I didn’t put my rating to brag, only to show that I’ve played both roles to a decent level which lends credence to my experience with the system. If you don’t see how that’s important to the discussion at hand then all of your points are pretty moot.
No, it’s not. DPS breaking even means healers would have to not go 3-3, which as we’ve already established is the most common outcome. It’s not common no matter what spec you are, period. Again, that is by design of how shuffle works with a dps playing with every other dps for 2 rounds.
Instant queues mean nothing when the result is you being frustrated/demoralized after the session.
It’s no more important than me saying I have been 2785 on my enhance. The math is what’s important here and you could be 1200 or 2400 and the same math applies.
I’m feeling a bit spunky atm…
Yes, yes it is.
I made a bunch of posts about MMR and how it works for DPS and tracked all my matches. As I said, in all my matches up to 2400 on my shaman, I had NO matches where I went 0-6 or 6-0. I had lots of streaks of going 3:3. On the other hand, I never had that happen on my hunter. I had lots of matches where I would go 6-0 and then go 0-6 the very next game.
It’s not the same as a healer, but the dilemma is the same.
As I said, I’m arguing for better MMR management for healers. I don’t think healers are moved into their appropriate bracket fast enough and if anything, a good healer could easily get stuck in a range that is 400-500+ rating below where they should be.
I get that… but you can’t discount the value of instant queues. It’s nice to sit down and just play and not wait 30 minutes. Like, really nice. It’s nice to have some actual agency of your game time.
Also, you need to grasp that they NEED healers to play as well. If rating for healers was as easy to get as it was for DPS, there would be an even larger issue. Healers would be queuing for half the games they are… imagine what that problem would look like.