You have to consider the other side too though.
Someone might go 1-5 and 2-4 a few matches and then hit a bunch of 3-3 matches. When they go even, their MMR is being brought up. So then if they go 2-4 again, they don’t lose as much OR they go 4-2 and they don’t have the lower MMR anchor weighing down their CR gain.
True true.
But the game is stacked against us (well most of us). When I started tracking my mmr changes, one of the things that popped out was that 2 of every 3 matches, my MMR was higher then the group’s average MMR. The game is actively trying to pull you down as a way to regulate gains. It’s trying to pull to the peak of the bell curve. Great if you’re on the lower end, bad if you’re on the higher end.
Again, you’re wrong. A) knowing you’ve been 2785 is important to the discussion and B) we’re discussing more than the math here. We’re also discussing how the system makes people feel. Which, if you didn’t know, is important in a video game.
No, no it isn’t.
Yeah, I see that you said that but don’t see any data that shows that since the data you provide is just MMR. And again, if there’s no data compared to a healer climbing then it’s not even relevant. I never said dps don’t go 3-3, just that they go 3-3 a lot less often than healers.
Glad you concede that I’m correct, I guess.
If instant queues were enough, we’d have a lot more people playing healers. Instant queues are not a bad thing, but again, if you come off your instant queues feeling awful I’d much rather sit the long queues. (and, as I already said, I did. My time climbing on dps was infinitely less painful even with the longer queues).
This just reads to me as “healers need to be punished for the system to work” and I’m sad that you feel that way.
Wrong about what though?
The OP is asking for gains for 3:3 matches. We are absolutely discussing math. How can you reward points for 3:3 matches?? The gains would be artificial and healers would be worse off for it.
Bad faith discussion. Have fun debating yourself.
About the rest of what I said. I think I made it pretty clear.
Haha, good job dismissing everything I said because you got flustered without a response. Ok.
I’d like to actually have a talk about this topic.
When healers claim they do nothing but go 3-3 or whatever due to dps, I can’t help but feel like they assume they have no agency in the match at all. In my experience, I can definitely point out the better healer in the lobby and it makes a tremendous difference. I know certain games stuff happens but by and large there’s gotta be something else to discuss.
I mean there are healers that routinely climb right? Good players that are always climbing. No one starts high for no reason.
Like I understand if a dps goes 0-6 then the healer has to 3-3 but the problem is assuming there’s nothing that can be done about that dps. And even if in one match there really isn’t, that definitely isn’t always the case. I can’t help but some healers think if they stand back and pve heal then they’re doing their job perfectly and everything else is out of their hands.
Maybe I’m off base but, just saying.
Sorry, did random low level dk alt named ‘Dumb’ with hidden profile want to have a serious discussion?
Just one more profile to add to the ignore batch.
What people talk about is the comparison of ease of climbing between dps and healers.
A similarly skilled player will be much higher on the ladder as a dps than as a healer. This is true even at the highest levels of play. R1 cutoffs last season for dps were higher than healer cutoffs in shuffle.
But in general, that feels bad at all levels of play.
Oh no, somebody who can’t handle me calling out his bad arguments is ignoring me instead of responding. Whatever shall I do?
That was my experience on my shaman. Went 3-3 due to 0-6 DPS sometimes, but it was always easy to recognize that was happening and understand that my win condition for the match was to carry that DPS one round. Against a 6-0 DPS the wincon was to carry against them one round. Sometimes the weaker link is weaker than you can be strong, but plenty of the time that’s not the case. Never felt much different than my devoker overall.
Healers complaining about it have a weird mentality. I assume if they went 3-3 over 6 premade games and ended up more or less where they started at the end of the night they would accept that as how things should be, but for some reason they see it as a waste of time in the context of shuffle. They think DPS are feeding on weak links every match and going 4-2 most of the time, despite that not being the most common result at all.
I also continue to see that no healer acknowledges that they get inted into just like DPS do. They think every match where they end up doing better than 3-3 was all them instead of the other healer ever throwing. The scoreboard doesn’t force them to acknowledge the reality of those matches like it does for DPS, so they have the option to delude themselves into believing it never happens, and even if it does happen sometimes obviously it’s super rare and basically not worth talking about. Healers are magical unicorns that never make mistakes.
that’s not the main problem. s1 and s2 solo shuffle highlights the main problem of overall pvp, no one likes playing healer regardless of healer difficulty. healers are an alt spec
so it needs to be rewarded externally with gold. cosmetics dont matter unless they’re god tier
buffing healers or minimizing cr losses from 2/6 wins is a temporary or small fix because it only helps the minority and not the majority, which is the casual or alt player base.
bonus conquest is also a temporary fix, alts will quit healing when they’re fully geared
Que will continue to increase as people quit engaging in solos bc the time isn’t worth the rewards. The big issue here for me is the hit to conquest/honor from Solo shuffle. The game mode is fun and feels random but the ques are fairly long for dps. So the rewards before 10.1 felt appropriate. Healers can cash in on this yes, but let them because there aren’t enough folks healing. The way rewards are now it is not alt friendly at all. I did 47 rounds and hit 1506 rating to net me 675 conquest and two great vault chests. Before 10.1 the amount of solos I did this week (over 100 rounds across all toons) I would have been able to get my 6 toons I pvp on to at least 2 great vault chests and capped on conquest. Folks that work and have kids yet still try to make time for this game won’t be able to have alts until the end of season as things stand now. For me this kills a great patch to the game and makes me not even want to play. My suggestion is make it so you can opt to que for solos that has a Heal on each team or just 6 dps. This would speed up que and match times. Or you know put the rewards back the way they were and just bump 2s and 3s to make them more appealing. There could also be a percentage for conquest/honor earned based on wins. 1 win= 50%, 2 = 75%, 3 = 100%, 4 = 100+% and so on. 50 conquest for 1 win means that you would still have to que for 27 solo shuffles (162 rounds) to cap for the 1st week and 75 for 2 wins would take 18 times (108 rounds).
My queues as disc aren’t instant anymore like they were in season 1 so I can’t help but think more people are healing
1800 on disc is like top 500 while it’s top 75 for other classes although people probably just wanted the elite set
That said healing is just as miserable as ever
This is more because, of all the people healing, a large percentage of them are disc. The system tries to pair people against different specs, so your queue times go up a bit as a disc player.
Mw is the majority from what I’ve seen 2100 and higher but below that disc is probably more popular yeah
Yeah, the stats support that. Disc is far and away the most popular healer until you get to the top of the ladder. But yeah, it’s essentially all discs and mws.
Why not give healers another route to pve upgrades through SS? Something like earning crests at a level relative to rating. It might encourage participation from a larger pool of healers while encouraging the grind to earn higher level crests without granting undue power in pvp.
I’ve had 5 games out of 6 today go 3-3 because a single DPS goes 0-6. As a healer, it’s basically every game.
For the rest of the comments here: It’s funny seeing comments from DPS saying it’s unreasonable for healers to be upset, or just the way things are, etc. This is part of why you’re sitting in 30-40 minute queues.
Only fix is either 3v3 dps lobbies or remove dampening.
Bro, I’m gettin 45 minute q times on Devoker right now D:
And the answer is simple: Give Healers a reason to queue outside of rating.
If people feel skill-capped or conq-capped, they won’t play.
If there are unique rewards for healing RSS, like gold per round won, or unique currency for rounds won that can be exchanged for cosmetics - Healers can be SOMEWHAT happy even if they go 2-4.
It’s just not healer agency per se. it’s also dice roll on the lobby make up. You can be the best player in the lobby skill wise, but if you’re say a mage and the other 3 are lock BM and ele, you’re going to have a rough session and the other 3 see you as the hen in the wolf den.
Maybe next lobby tho, you are now into warrior, Ret, enh and you clean up.
The problem is healers will typically always have that weak link.