When I played vanilla through WoTLK all I did was run gnomeragon and BRD and hang around hillsbarad ganking ppl on a rogue.
Less people raided or where completionists than you guys realize or remember.
I mean the levels of confirmation bias are off the scale here.
When wow was popular and retaining players it was:
A) new
B) ppl went exploring
C) ppl just did whatever they wanted or had friends carry them
D) most ppl didn’t even hit level cap that first year
WoTLK is when tge core grp started to really push content.
The journey was fun. Gnomeragon was gud. U rarely had somebody in raid gear who knew the instance by the back of their hand to basically solo all the trash and next boss for you.
Im not advocating going back to classic for retail. Just pointing out that raid or die or pushing high keys being core wow experiences, is a false assertion.
They’re meant to extend the life out of content especially m+. However it’s not working is it? Lol. M+ has been old instances. Dungeons are alll extremely simplified and basically gear prigression dependent. And the core content has been nerfed so much it requires zero skill and is not fun for new and returning players. Not to mention all the damage done to all of the legacy timewalking content because it’s no longer meant to be challenging or any kind of achievement.
Moving the challenge down the road to an affix ridden +20 loot tube speedrun simulation isn’t the answer to “why is wow dying wheres the fun”.
Most people are quitting before brackenhide becomes actually fun.
It should start there and there should be more of it. It shouldn’t require a meta or even a tank and the holy trinity. And some of it should be solo content.
If I haven’t helped you by now…
Enjoy your vaults on Tuesday… maybe blizz will just let us buy vault rewards one day lol.
The whole point of the game is to play with other people. If they make you able to solo current dunguens and raids, and with thr same rewards, guilds will die.
If you give me the option to wait around for 19 other people or just go and solo it myself for the rng ilvl drops… im going solo and raid times just changed. Seriously
you do realize you can’t play with other people 24/7 every day right? like that is a rare occoruance someone has best buds they only play wow with each other and sit across from eachother in a computer room.
This isn’t NORMAL and it’s not normal to expect other ppl to play like that.
Every single MMORPG even the grindiest toughest ones like everquest have tons of “Soloable content” and a lot of times the players themselves make that content challenging for themselves, however the default should be that all content should be somewhat challenging, not to a 14 year old on adderal, but u know, like moderately engaging and challenging like the shell game at least in BFA. or the jellyfish jumping game. or a quest that requires exploration and not handynotes to find invisible things under bushes or just following waypoints.
I’m cool with group content having the best progressive rewards, even though I think the role requirements are a bit outdated. But a lot of the issues people seem to have is when there is any reward structure at all in the more flexible or solo content.
I’ll go back to Torghast. It never had to compete with mythic raiding, it just needed a reward structure that fed into its own progression. They designed Torghast around suggestive gear levels, it should’ve allowed you to meet those suggested gear levels in the content itself. It would’ve made it a far better experience. It would’ve been the type of content that a lot of us wanted. But it failed because it was content very few wanted.
They’ve tried to make stuff like that before. Horrific visions were another decent example. It’s obvious they want to try, they just always ruin it by making it a chore for M+, PVP, and raid, rather than a fourth pillar.
I was cool with torghast as it was even without giving gear. People with better gear can do higher levels to get their soul ash or whatever it was called quicker.
Cool. Makes sense.
Apart from one thing.
All the collectables they locked away behind the higher floors of it.
If you could have collected the mounts and stuff without having to do the floors that recommend way higher gear than we could access, it would have been fine without gear rewards.
But they really messed it up in the end.
Its a shame.
(But also torghast wasnt fun either way and now at level 70 getting the rewards is beyond easy, just tedious. So eh, whatever i guess)
I can get behind this. It would be nice to have more things in game that are not gear dependant and based more on your ability to plan, think, and react.
Torghast was fun on the beta. If they launched it the way it was originally designed, it’d have been a better experience. Maybe not for lilyeet or whatever, but we obviously play the game differently.
They tried to blind copy Palace of the Dead’s vibe with Torghast, and PotD does well as standalone content. But PotD worked because it didn’t rely on external progression, it was self-contained.
