You refuse to listen to your community (about twinks)

[Litleshiznit-sargeras (Litleshiznit)]

O O O … I know… just like 120 and WM…(sarcasm)…we need more incentive to PVP VS Twinks.

[Tarjana-amanthul]

Suggestion:

characters with xp set to “off” should have a forcefully set cap on their gear iLevel in PvP Instances, scaling down all their gear iLevel to the lowest possible heirloom iLevel in that bracket regardless of their character level so long as their character has xp set to off .

E.g. a level 59 xp off twink character geared in iLevel 60 epics or rares or heirlooms joins the instanced PvP , and has all their gear scaled down to a iLevel 52 - this is a heirloom iLevel of a level 50 character allowed to join the same PvP bracket, making it a lowest possible average iLevel in that bracket. Those below that average iLevel52 in PvP bracket 50-59 are underperforming, and a problem is on their end, not on twinks or on game.

The gear iLevel will stay at minimum in PvP instances regardless of a character level so long as the character has xp set to off .

Long version with reasons:
It is

0. not the skill of the twinks we have a problem with

or should be having a problem with. I see most posts including OP are about getting 2 shotted, which have nothing to do with skill. This is a perfectly valid complaint, and I might have an easy solution to that difficult problem below, but I would like to state that if we can’t agree on that noone should ever get penalised for knowing how to play their class regardless of gear they wear, then you may as well go play farmville and stop reading further.

I see you keep reading… That means you have agreed to 0. Awesome! Then here it comes:

It is a

1. BiS gear we have a problem with

and the

2. Time duration the above BiS gear can be used for to gain a competitive advantage we have a problem with

If the gear factor is negated, it would become irrelevant whether twinks have their own queues again or not.
In fact it would be highly desirable for us to fight and win vs a skilled opponent which most twinks are, which would help us to become better players ourselves. But I absolutely realise there is a fine line between getting outplayed at a close call and getting 2 shotted.
Well, skill difference doesn’t make you get 2 shotted.
Gear difference does.
So keep reading for a solution to a 2 shot problem:

1. Proposed solution to a gear problem:

characters with xp set to “off” should have a forcefully set cap on their gear iLevel in PvP Instances, scaling down all their gear iLevel to the lowest possible heirloom iLevel in that bracket regardless of their character level so long as their character has xp set to off.

E.g. a level 59 xp off twink character geared in iLevel 60 epics or rares or heirlooms joins the instanced PvP, and has all their gear scaled down to a iLevel 52 - this is a heirloom iLevel of a level 50 character allowed to join the same PvP bracket, making it a lowest possible average iLevel in that bracket. Those below that average iLevel52 in PvP bracket 50-59 are underperforming, and a problem is on their end, not on twinks or on game.

The gear iLevel will stay at minimum in PvP instances regardless of a character level so long as the character has xp set to off.

2. Proposed solution to a duration problem:

The above restriction would only apply to an xp-off characters. e.g. if a level 59 twink turns the xp-on setting, they would have their iLevel back to a normal iL60 in PvP Instance, but having xp-on means they will eventually level out of 50-59 bracket, and will have to repeat the BiS process in the next bracket all over again, just like they would for all the years before bfa expansion.

Pros:

• Twinks get to keep their special effects that will give them certain negligible advantage, such as unique weapon procs that work only below certain level like Frostguard. But the rest of the gear will have the average stats for that bracket. What that means for twinks is if they join to a Battleground with xp setting “off”, then all of their items will have their items level scaled down to a heirloom item level of a level x0 in that bracket. For example: Heirloom item level at character level 50 is iL 52. Heirloom item level at character level 59 is iL60. A twinked out level 59 character joins the battleground with xp off setting, only to find out, all of their gear, including heirlooms, was scaled down to an iL52 regardless of their character level. This kind of nerfbat would nullify twink advantage in the current PvP system, where iL is a bread and butter of PvP. And if you can’t beat a Level 50 twinks in iLevel52 gear when your character is level 59 in a iLevel60 gear, the problem is on your end, not on twinks, or on game.
• Average player would still face a solid challenge - opponent who knows how to play their class, but who is possible to bring down 1v1, and definitely doable at 1v2. Not the current state of facing a death machine that 2 shots average players 1v3 without dropping below 50% hp.
• Twinks are not going to feel nerfbatted into oblivion or kicked out of same queues as xp-on people either which would only proves their point how community is not ready for their awesomeness - they’re more than welcome to join the battleground with xp-on setting enabled, and experience no restriction. And playerbase would still face a death machine. But then a second constraint come into place - a duration of time we would be facing such death machine. Twinks will level out eventually. And their uber gear will be average at best at the next PvP bracket, so they will have to repeat the BiS process all over again before becoming a death machine in the next PvP bracket.
• The restriction would only apply in the instanced PvP however. In open world PvP twinks can operate unhindered because max level character is always going to be stronger because of level difference, and in open world PvE and raiding twinks would keep their original power level that would reward their dedication without jeopardising other people’s joy of the game.

Cons:

• None. Nil. Zero I can think of. For the majority player base obviously. I am former twink and I really really really would love twinks to finally properly integrated in the community without certain elitist jerks making them look like horrible scumbags. Most of twinks are not cackling machines that live to stomp the life out of average joe, but if the top end means provided make it possible, then the problem is on game end, not the player end. The proper integration was never ever done, and blizzard has brought twinks into mainstream without thinking it through… again…

If you actually managed to finish reading this, upvote this to the top please so blizzard would consider something like my suggestion at the top

[Zérgling-thrall (Zérgling)]

You win

/10

[Apahni-wyrmrest-accord]

Twinks need to learn real pvp not this carebear crap that it is now

[Kazburn-dalaran]

I would agree 100% with the original post. Vanilla and mainly BC player with some Lich King experience here- just got back into it 5 month ago. Started a horde to lvl from 1 -120 after I hit 120 with Alliance.
Pretty stupid the BG’s a twink back in the day had advantages and they were fewer an farther between so it was obvious who needed focusing. Even then you had a fighting chance there was very few 2 shot kills. Now they are so very powerful its 2 or 3 hits dead.
For those who are like (QQ and try harder ) you are the very problem. Its a symptom of wanting to own someone and dominate not have fun and work together in winning. The attitude is (I want to solo and crush everyone and show my dominance because i spent real money and deserve it) Can you imagine being a 12 year old leveling away and your first BG comes up and some healer 2 shots you? You can’t afford the cost of getting the stamina and gear up there and lock your toon. The attitude of screw the new and weak its all about me- wrong, wrong wrong. I believe this is prime reason for Blizzards issues. Needless to say I stay away from low lvl BG’s and hop on my 120 where twinking isn’t a problem yet, you can win by strategy.

[Kazburn-dalaran]

I have 0 problem with premades its people working together like the games intend to be many years ago.
All of these issues would be solved with one simple solution. Have a BG and Arena mode where only white gear is accepted and enchants not allowed. No alchemy or alterations. Then you have a game that rely on quality of play and strategy. Simple fix.

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

All of these issues would be solved with one simple solution. Have a BG and Arena mode where only white gear is accepted and enchants not allowed. No alchemy or alterations. Then you have a game that rely on quality of play and strategy. Simple fix.

Did you miss Legion? It was tried, players want customization in this game.

BFA has had more adjustments which pertain to solely the lower brackets than ever before in World of Warcraft.
8.1.5 will be another huge reworking which is focused on Balance.

This thread is questionable, when in reality Blizzard is clearly listening to the woes within the lower brackets.
The proof is easily accessible through documented adjustments since BFA launch.

[Vendorioc-wyrmrest-accord]

Kang, do you have a link to the 8.1.5 changes? I’ve looked for them but they must be right in front of me as I can’t find them. I’m curious to see how they’re changing things.

Thank you

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

do you have a link to the 8.1.5 changes

Wowhead PTR version (click box beside search bar) would be the easiest way to check some adjustments outside of actually logging on.

[Vendorioc-wyrmrest-accord]

Thanks Kang.

[Tambourine-khazgoroth]

Enchant a set of BoAs for your leveling toon. It costs a few k gold, speeds up your leveling and makes you competitive against twinks in BGs.

No brainer.

Expecting some scrub geared toon in outdated green gear to be competitive in any part of an RPG game is stupid and you deserve to be 1 shot.

[Stryper-emerald-dream (Stryper)]

You are the first person to give a legitimate reason why you twink, cheers amigo! Your reason is one that I personally can accept.

[Alamo-gurubashi]

You can’t queue with twinks. If you have xp on and your friend has xp off you can’t queue together.

[Alamo-gurubashi]

It seems like still no one has made a valid argument against this, just twinks showing off the anger issues we already knew they had.

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

If you’re both the same level range you can.

[Alamo-gurubashi]

Are you sure? I know I remember reading that, but now I can’t think of where. Maybe it was the NPC who turns xp off. Anyway, it could be old information.

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

Probably when xp off was separated you couldn’t.

[Rabidabidoo-altar-of-storms]

Are you sure? I know I remember reading that, but now I can’t think of where. Maybe it was the NPC who turns xp off. Anyway, it could be old information.

Yes, they changed it in legion to include exp off with the exp on. Personally I do not like it, but it is a thing.

[Berembolo-dalaran]

So let’s say you turn off xp at 79. You can now do dungeons from the next xpac. So essentially you are getting level 80’ish gear. Does the person at level 75 or 77 have access to that gear? No. And they haven’t done dungeons until they are BiS. Levelers are doing dungeons o level, not get BiS.

Now you get into the BG and the twink has twice the health and twice the power. It’s like getting into a fight with a child. Let’s not pretend that the levelers have access to the same things, or if they fight well they can compete. You can’t compete with someone who can kill you in 2-3 hits.

I don’t presume to talk for everyone, but don’t you presume that my points aren’t valid.

Honestly, why would you want to bg if you know that you won’t be competitive? And why not try locking your xp and spend a few gold , craft a few items, and grind a few pieces of gear and be competitive? It isn’t difficult. There are always going to be players who bg to win, and gearing is a big part of that.

[Mauden-korgath (Mauden)]

why not try locking your xp and spend a few gold , craft a few items, and grind a few pieces of gear and be competitive?

Don’t like twinks? Just become a twink!