WotLK carrying this series to its peak is what’s real. Sorry if you didn’t like it, but it was the best expansion this game has ever seen and dungeon finder did nothing to help that.
Whatever does it for you bud. You were talking numbers before. By all means, go ahead and ignore what the curve means. But nothing with thinking wrath or retail or any xpac was awesome.
Oh, I think the boost is pure cancer. But I’m not so naive to think that all of the monetizations they’ve shoehorned onto the game were proposed or even supported by the game developers themselves.
Make no mistake, the paid level boost isn’t to make the game better, it’s to make Activision Blizzard more money. It shouldn’t be in the game, but the community was too spineless when it came up, so now it’s here to stay. The paid level boost doesn’t really have a place in this conversation. Especially since Blizzard is taking a very obvious stance on it. They offer a paid level boost, but they’re also breaking dungeon carries for a reason. They’re both cancer for the experience, but one of those things generates a lot of money for Activision Blizzard’s corporate shareholders.
Also, even if you did actually believe that the paid boost is something the developers themselves wanted (LOL), they limited it to one per account. Even when it’s extremely profitable, they limited it because they know it’s horrible for the game. Either they think everyone only has one single character, or they DID, infact, intend that the game actually be played to level most of the time. Also, the paid boost only goes to 58. Even if you swipe your credit card, it’s still intended for you to actually play the game to hit level cap.
Absurd argument. Stealing is still making a living. Making a living is getting enough money to pay your bills and live comfortably.
Yes, going from level 20 to 21 is leveling, but if you’re exploiting an unintended mechanic of the game to do it, that unintended mechanic should be patched out. Generally when someone says “I’m going to level my character”, they mean they’re actually going to play the game. Not pay some Mage botter gold and sit AFK doing nothing.
Yeah, I don’t disagree with you at all. Some people don’t like certain aspects of the game. There’s nothing wrong with that. They just shouldn’t be able to circumvent the design of the game because of it. If we were talking about a single-player game, I wouldn’t see any problem with it.
Well luckily, it’s much less work to just break dungeon carries than it is to do all of the technical backend work to implement dungeon finder.
Also, thinking that dungeon finder would stop dungeon carries is just hilariously wrong. People who would rather sit AFK than actually play the game to level aren’t going to want to play just because of dungeon finder. Some of them may, but the majority of the people who look at the leveling process as being pointless will not.
Also: Luckily, they’re revamping the LFG tool we had in Wrath, which was already way better back then than the tool we have in TBC Classic now. So they WILL have a tool that helps them group up at lower levels.
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By the way, I see the conversation about sub counts happening here, and I don’t think there’s really any sense in trying to glean much meaning from them, at least as it relates to dungeon finder, specifically. We didn’t have long enough of a time with dungeon finder before the sub count went into freefall to really be sure that it had any significant effect on WoW’s success. Especially since Cataclysm brought a lot of other changes that were more significant than dungeon finder.
I definitely think that dungeon finder was incredibly negative for the experience, but there’s just not enough data to prove it had anything to do with the sub counts, good or bad.
These people are assuming it was lfd that killed it for cata.
Here is my take as a late legion starter leveling a char. the tl;dr preface…I hated cata.
Hero…pandas or cata.
Cata please.
before we send you off would you like to upgrade mount? It will go faster!
hell yeah. its most of my gold but yolo!
Poof…upgrade. now…let us throw you in the ocean and its useless. Would have been nice to know before I spent the gold.
lasted about an hour here…hated it. So I said lets play with panda’s. Only time I went back to cata after that was to get the quests needed to see Ben’thalos the exotic spirit pet. Saw owl, tamed owl (twice even)…cata was dead to me, again.
the take away…some of that cata drop off was probably people going wth is this crap. It can happen.
See eve did a cata like setup few years back.
whole big chunk of hi -sec…went to utter crap. that…saw many leave. that had some come back who were away on the change a year later. They saw all their crap in a really bad section of space now basically stuck there. And…they said well screw this. Now I am officially done with eve lol.
Who is saying dungeon finder is what did it? Overwhelmingly, the thing that people cite as the game’s biggest downfall was raid finder. As far as the anti and pro dungeon finder argument goes, we’re not saying that dungeon finder killed WoW. It was a factor that contributed to the game feeling sterile and less like WoW, but far from the only problem.
If you think that’s our biggest gripe with Retail, you’ve misunderstood the arguments. xD
I see it after cata, LFD was stable for a year. There isn’t enough time to point it at LFD. Stop trying to manipulate obvious data. You anti-LFD minority seriously just want to ruin the game for the rest of us.
If dungeon finder was added to WotLK at launch it would be more retail-esque than original WotLK dungeon finder. Players are what makes dungeon finder bad. Anonymity turns people into a-holes. A 2022 version of WotLK dungeon finder would look exactly like current retail dungeon finder. Nobody talks unless they are talking s*** or complaining. People will treat others like crap or roll need on gear to take it from someone out of spite.
You’re alone there. Man of many alts here and RARELY have flame wars in LFD.
Subs actually went up after LFD was added. The trolls will say LFD had nothing to do with it, though they’ll then turn around and say subs dropped because of LFD. So it’s the typical hypocrisy. And it’s nothing that can ever be proven. You going to poll every player who quit the game in that time and ask why? So it’s pure conjecture…and also pointless. Just another way to change the subject and distract from what actually matters: LFD was in Wrath and should be in Wrath Classic.
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I only have seen it get ugly in necrotic wake. and that is after 1 or 2 knuckleheads have messed up boss 3 hook mechanic like 6 times. I got this mechanic. and I am not a KSM, CE, AOTC, LMNOP, QRSTUV level of player.
Okay dudes…you can’t be this bad this many times. One more time…if arrow on you point to boss on stage. Here the “clink”, move out the way.
Last chance at redemption. We will assume trolling and kick real soon.
It’s crazy to watch people twist data regularly, as we can clearly see here in this almost 300 comment forum post where the Anti-LFD’s arguments are absolutely insane and just purely opinion trying to make it fact. I still ask for anyone to prove LFD negatively affected the game and not a single one has been able to do it.
Just one guy said it before and it spread around. It’s the same as “removing talent trees ruined the game” “LFR ruined the game” “PvP ruined the game”
People are complaining to complain. The problem is they’re so vocal and the current Devs agree with them without any solid proof of any of it. They’re turning people away. With the recent post i know a good chunk of people who are going to stick to pservers.
Which is insane to me to think the people who want pservers to fail the most are only strengthening them.
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Maybe the sub increase was because of ICC release and people hyped for fighting the Lich King?
We can speculate all we want and try and spin the data to fit a narrative, but one fact remains - Blizzard has directly attributed dungeon finder to be the cause of the collapse of communities and social bonds.
- No Dungeon Finder – Players rediscovering Wrath of the Lich King Classic won’t find the Looking for Dungeon feature originally added in Patch 3.3.5. We’ve heard from our Classic community that the importance of social bonds is a big part of what makes Classic their game of choice, and we agree.
We’ve heard from our Classic community that the importance of social bonds is a big part of what makes Classic their game of choice, and we agree.
We’ve heard from our Classic community that the importance of social bonds is a big part of what makes Classic their game of choice, and we agree.
We’ve heard from our Classic community that the importance of social bonds is a big part of what makes Classic their game of choice, and we agree.
There’s your facts. Straight from Blizzard. They agree that dungeon finder hurts the community/social aspect of the game.
End of discussion.
The irony here is that Zaalg spent months arguing LFD destroyed the community, and was a terrible feature. He was part of the community that convinced Blizzard to remove it.
And the dungeon finder in Wrath destroyed the pve community that LFR finished off in the next expansion. But sadly it’ll be in Wrath
You reap what you sow.
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This is pure gold. 
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The current Dev’s are the one that messed up retail, and people think they can make LK better? - kinda makes me think of a few stories in the news in the last few years where someone repairs\touches up a old masterpiece painting and now it looks like a 12 year old finger painted it.
the best move tbh
Blizzard is a business. They are always going to agree. Doesn’t mean they’re right or wrong. Its an opinion.
It’s not end of discussion until we see factual data of what the MAJORITY of players want.
This is true for a LOT of companies anymore. They ride on the coat tails of their past successes without doing what made those past successes possible in the first place.
Cata had a lot of issues, but LFD wasn’t one of them. Personally, I liked the Cata dungeons.
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Looking back (actually I had these thoughts way back then as well) it seems like different parts of the WoW team weren’t really communicating with each other effectively or weren’t really thinking things through.
They changed the model for healing, which made it a little more challenging (a lot more for resto druids that needed balance changes in the first couple of patches). They designed the dungeons to require more crowd control and situational awareness (which requires more/better healing when you screw it up). And then they gave worse gear (relative to the next tier - raid gear- when compared to Wrath dungeons).
Any single one of those changes probably would have been enough to dial it back from Wrath. Two could have been livable. All three and well, they tripped and fell flat.
When I had a good group that could communicate I liked some of the new things they tried. I specifically remember having issues with people in Grim Batol who refused to participate in the bombing run to try and make the dungeon easier.
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