Wrath was Popular for a reason

These drastic changes that are being hinted at in the most recent interview are scary to read.

By making big drastic changes, it’s an alienation of all the little things of what made Wrath so popular. There is a reason there is a gigantic illegal community that stole data to profit off of. Each thing mentioned is getting worse over time.

First, thank you for going back on Dual spec and deciding to keep it original. This is a good decision. We don’t need an inconvenience made for the sake of being an inconvenience.

-Changing ToC lockouts is a BAD move. The raid itself can be cleared in 30-45 minutes. People want loot from both normal and heroic, some want double trinkets from both. It hurts to remove the option to do both consistently and having to swap. Not only that, but with changeable lockouts, how will insanity be handled? This achievement run gave more tier tokens and also gave some of the best cloaks in the game. You remove the option for normal to want to be completed and will ultimately hurt more people. You effectively remove 1 extra hour of played time per week.

-Post nerf Ulduar is a joke in comparison to Pre Nerf Ulduar, Pre nerf is completely doable and it’s a ton of fun. It requires more strategy to be completable and created better raid interactions and more responsibility on a player-to-player basis. Fights like XT where you had the Light Bomb and Gravity Bomb go out during tantrum required more utility from the raid and had a more interactive fight. Or Kologarn where the raid needed to switch targets insantly to kill the hand made an easy fight a better experience where you didn’t faceroll and move on. PLEASE release pre nerf Ulduar.

-DO NOT nerf engineering. Don’t think about it, this is the expansion where Engineering had the most fun utility and was worth the sacrifice of having a profession slot taken up. Gold making isn’t as lucrative with Engineering as it is with Leatherworking, Tailoring, Enchanting, and Alchemy, but you gained a more engaging experience. Also if you decide to remove Nitro Boosts, you effectively take away one of the only movement abilities slow classes can get. It would require a rebalance with some classes(which we don’t need, 3.3.5a was in a good state) like shaman, who went engi to get movement that they don’t have from their class. Removing these in arenas wouldn’t be an issue, it got removed later for a reason and would restore some balance to arenas and allow more comps to climb. Just don’t touch it for PVE content.

-Tenacity, this is a double edged sword. By removing tenacity cap and “reaching the heavens” you will end up with a raid boss on uneven servers. A fix for this could be making Wintergrasp a server vs server situation where an Alliance Dominated Server grouped against a Horde dominated server in its own instance to battle for Wintergrasp, you wouldn’t worry about having a Raid Boss player ramping about, and the battle would be more balanced. Fighting to get it on your server.

-LFD. Beating a dead horse here, but there has been many requests on vote systems within Blizzard to get a better idea. If you are worried about flood voting by bot accounts, just set a threshold of character level minimum or require X amount of account life to vote to have a more realistic pool. This could be done within game or in your own website(you used to have GM feedback within game by survey, its definitely possible)

-Why can’t race changes be a thing? Sometimes people just want to switch. It is money to fund the game further, and allows player freedom to change decisions. It just feels like a restriction to exist to be a restriction with no real rhetoric besides “we don’t want that”

-Nerfing Boosting: GOOD. But a leveling LFD(server only) would remove this, but since you guys are so against it. Just make a better UI for grouping. Shadowlands has a really good UI for it, why not copy and change it to be more in line with the ideals of what you are looking for? This goes hand in hand with stopping bots.
You can’t set such crazy restrictions then wonder why there’s so many bots. Players are cornered against the odds and cannot keep up with what gets demanded. They end up feeling pressured to turn to RMT’s to be able to do anything. The systems that were put in place were to remove these problems and you’re effectively bringing them back.

Remember this was the most popular expansion by player numbers and one of the best memories for a lot of people. Too many changes are not good. Just reconsider some of the options you are looking at and do not rush drastic changes that will flip this Expansion on it’s head.

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…and the reason Wrath was popular was because everyone wanted to kill the Lich King- an-already well-known villain from the WC3 franchise.
WoW reached peak subscriptions because WoW was a great game, but that doesn’t mean that the new features added in WotLK were brilliant.

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Pretty much agree with everything in this post.

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It absolutely wouldn’t. People who would pay gold to sit AFK at a dungeon entrance or swipe their credit card to buy a high level character aren’t suddenly going to start playing the game because an algorithm will form the groups for them. It’s the playing the game that’s the problem.

I don’t doubt for a second that many people who pay for dungeon carries would be happy to play the game normally if boosting wasn’t an option – They’re just taking the path of least resistance. But until dungeon carries are completely broken, it will still be the way that many people level up because it’s more convenient than actually playing.

Edit: I should also mention that a good portion of the WoW team thinks that Dungeon Finder was actually harmful for the Wrath experience, and I whole-heartedly agree with this. It shouldn’t be implemented to solve some problem that can easily be broken with very simple changes.

I do highly agree with this. Even though the Wrath version of the Looking For Group tool was much better than what we have now in TBC Classic, I think a fair tradeoff for never implementing Dungeon Finder is to bolster the functionality of the tool that helps people form groups manually.

And I think Brian’s actually said that they’re working on making the tool better. I haven’t played Retail since Legion so I’m not familiar with how much better that tool is now than it was then, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see some parity with it in Wrath Classic.

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blizzard are trying to act smartly when they’re clueless.
they lost tons of people in shadowlands because of same logic “action taken/decisions, Without any anticipating” and now they’re doing the same, not only that wotlkc will not get any new players but it will also keep on losing the current players.

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I dungeon boosted a few characters in classic and tbcc because I absolutely HATE questing. If they had lfd at launch I wouldn’t even think of it, I would just spam dungeons as a healer or tank like I always do in retail.

It’s not a make or break for me so idc either way. It also wasn’t in the game till the last tier so I also think they should hold off on it till ICC which I think they will end up doing anyway.

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Just leave wrath alone and it WILL be successful, all these changes they are trying to ham fist in are the only thing that’s gonna push people away.

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Wrath wasnt popular. When you start a topic with a false claim the rest of your post is mot taken seriously.

Wrath was the downfall of wow. Even though they added two great features. Dual spec and lfd. They were great additions, but sadly they lost vision as a result. Because of lfd, they felt it was necessary to dumb down the dungeons. This turned off a lot of players. The subs started to fall. Blizz was turning an already easy game into super easy. At the end of wotlk, players were voicing thier disapproval. Not considering it popular as you say. They wanted heroic dungeons to be heroic. So blizz increased the difficulty in rhe next expansion and immediatly nerfed them when they saw that the players had adapted to the face roll, no threat aoe fests that the game had become. And the players didnt want to learn how to cc again. At least that was the lesson they took. And they were wrong. The game continued to drop subs and blizz continued to make the game easier.

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yeah the game is already chalked.

Just play pservers honestly, they have proven yet again they will give a better experience than anything blizzard will.

Its unfortunate but the truth.

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Me too, except a couple of things; maybe it’s just too many things for a single post for everyone to be in agreement with, but I liked it, and more or less support it.

It absolutely wouldn’t. People who would pay gold to sit AFK at a dungeon entrance or swipe their credit card to buy a high level character aren’t suddenly going to start playing the game because an algorithm will form the groups for them. It’s the playing the game that’s the problem.

This. LFD can’t compete with AFK.

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Great suggestions, To confirm nitro boots shouldn’t be usable in arena. There should also be faction and race change options… I think the toc change would be a good one making it work like icc

Ulduar is widely considered one of the best raids ever and ToC one of the worst. Are you actually arguing against them taking steps to give people incentives to keep raiding ulduar instead of spamming 4 lockouts of ToC for bis gear.

No one asked Blizzard to make any of these changes. They didn’t poll the community at all. Their ego demands that they make changes to the game since they think they know better. 5 months ago I would guess lfd, race changes, and everything that originally was in wrath would be there. I’m so confused what’s going on with the classic dev team.

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ToC had its purpose though. In that patch you only got ToC and Onyxia, The trinkets that drop from there had a huge impact for progression in ICC. Healers want double solace, and melee/hunters want double deaths choice, and some casters want double Reigns. By combining lockouts, it removes that ability to freely farm it. It was also a great catch up patch for people who were switching their mains and could catch up quickly. Ulduar is a fantastic raid but it creates huge burnout since it is so long and guilds want to continually run it for Val’anyr.
ToC is fast. Normals can be easily pugged with minimal effort. You can finish a full normal in under 30 minutes with loot. After you get heroic down, it is a 45 minute run. If you combine lockouts, you remove the same time as a dungeon run. It is pointless to combine lockouts. All it does is complicate ICC preparation.

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You ever even played a private server mr troll? I have since cata launch, and I can tell you they are all a buggy mess, there has never been one with a fully scripted game world. Never been one with properly scripted abilities across the board. Never been one with every boss fight scripted and functional.

Even goofballs on wowhead look to a certain well known server to judge their upcoming tier lists, when a simple glance at the forums you will see in 5 minutes that a bunch of trinkets and abilities are bugged that add extra DPS to certain specs and take away DPS from others.

Yall should actually go play one for a bit before mouthing off nonsense, but i mean, youre a troll, so what should I expect?

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Pservers have RDF, as intended in WOTLK. They stay true to their game. Unlike Blizzard.

Go buy another store mount.

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Uhhh. No.

So, I am a big supporter of LFD, but I am not ignorant. It did not release until ICC. The whole “they stay true to their game” is ignorant. The most popular pserver is completely custom at this point to make it harder for players since players are better now than they were. Also everything is based off trinity core, which is stable but requires a lot of work to get it to a correct state of play. Pservers also have full p2w shops. So “go buy another store mount” is just a comical rhetoric cause you obviously have never played one before.

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Turtle for Vanilla itch, Warmane (or even Chromiecraft) for that Wrath desire.

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That’s objectively false. The subs started to fall some time after Cataclysm released and dungeons got much harder.

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