this whole expansion is wrong in my opinion.
I Approve of this idea.
2 Likes
I agree with what Velaisa says. And Iâll say this:
First, those who subscribe to the âSaurfang is a traitorâ line. It appears to me youâve never played in Northerend and seen the conversation between Saurfang and Garrosh at Warsong Hold. You werenât part of Volâjinâs Revolution and knew the part Saurfang played in Mists of Pandaria. You must not know about the fall of Saurfangâs son at the Wrathgate (perpetrated by Sylvanas, by the way, and that has now been officially confirmed by Blizzard staff). Or how Varian Wrynn spared Varok Saurfang at ICC when he was attempting to leave with the body of his fallen son, Draenash.
^^ Iâve said all this for newer players who donât know all the lore.
Sylvanas openly threatened Varok Saurfang with the curse of undeath, and even threatened to reanimate his son if he didnât do as she wanted. Then she destroyed everyone in Teldrassil because she got triggered by a few words of a dying night elf laying on the ground.
She is not fit to be Warchief.
âMoral graysâ my butt!
You also must not be aware of the vision Thrall and Volâjin had for the Horde, which was expressed many times by Volâjin during his revolution and when he was Warchief. You must also not know that Baine shares the same sentiments, which is the reason he is also now opposing Sylvanas as he did Garrosh.
Garrosh also opposed Sylvanas, by the way, in Cataclysm, and you can find that by doing a few simple quests in Silverpine Forest and see what he had to say about her making plague and reanimating corpses. Level a Worgen to 15 and youâll discover that Garrosh ordered Sylvanas specifically, NOT to make blight, but she defied him anyways. Level a lowbie on Horde and in Silverpine you discover what he thinks about her reanimations. During Siege of Orgrimmat Loerâthemar threatens to deal with Sylvanas himself on the spot when she offer to reanimate his fallen blood elf soldiers.
The members of the Horde do not take kindly to their actions. They are silently biting their lips and biding their time with her. She cares nothing for their lives and theyâre just meat shields to her.
Anduin himself said, specifically to Sylvanas, âOnly one of us wanted this warâ.
When Saurfang was captured, Anduin also told him that they would speak of honor and how it could be restored.
So the OPs assumption that if there was a coup that removed Sylvanas one way or another, that the Alliance would still wipe out the Horde- there are still some who have ties to the Alliance. Baine has ties with Jaina and Anduin, and that was made evident even more so in the novel War Crimes.
Shadows of the Horde provides more insight as to why the human Tyrathan Khort was at Volâjinâs Funeral, and why at Trueshot Lodge, he refers to a âpromise to keepâ. Because in the novel he and Volâjin both were found gravely wounded and nursed back to health by the Shado Pan. They formed a bond of friendship and eventually made a pact: If one of them dies, the other will avenge.
By the way, in that same novel, Taran Zhu of the Shado Pan made an interesting observation about Volâjin- that he was more like Tuishi than Huojin. In other words, he was more patient and thoughtful in his actions as the Tuishi are. Oh, and while weâre at it, go roll a new troll and see what Volâjin says to Garrosh and you can see the foundation that was laid for his eventual rebellion.
So there is a lot more than most people think where the Horde and Alliance have in common. This game is very lore rich. thatâs why I hate how they changed the leveling because now you can skip zones and if youâre new you can miss some very good lore that fills in some of these gaps where some of this makes more sense.
There are some among the player base that want the other faction destroyed no matter what you say. Horde that want Alliance destroyed absolutely, and visa versa. I really donât care about their opinions. I donât think the game can last if this is maintained forever. And every xpac does have the one thing that the Horde and Alliance end up teaming up over. BFA will be no different. âBattle for Azerothâ is not about the struggle between the Horde and Alliance. Theyâll have to team up again to save Azeroth from something else. They always do.
I have also seen a growing number of players, and I am among them, who favor either uniting or dismantling the faction as we know it and finally uniting Azeroth.
And I saw something before the xpac how they were talking about changing the factions, I donât know in what way. But if it means I can have orcs, humans, blood elves, trolls, and tauren and be on either side of whatever the new factions are, Iâm all for it.
How can we have things like PVP? Well after all, there will still be people who âjust canât get alongâ. Or perhaps it can just take a new form, such as gladiator combat or some other medium. I think in terms of the game your old BGs and such would just remain as a feature of the game for people who want to play those. But Iâm just guessing about that. I donât even know how these faction changes they were talking about are going to play out. Just that they said something about it.
This wall of text hits for 990k Crit! ![:rofl:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/rofl.png?v=6" ":rofl:")
6 Likes
You orcs had your chanceâŠand you failedâŠyou failed to lead the Horde to where it needed to be. The Queen shall take her place, and purge the light and all the life that clings to it. The Queen will take the boy-kings life and his throne and make Stormwind her new seat of powerâŠand finally bring the true power to the Horde, and the Eastern Kingdoms shall feel her icy graspâŠacross the landsâŠthose shall follow he and receive the gift of ever-lifeâŠor be turn to dust and ashâŠlike the elfâs and their little children and their pathetic treeâŠ
1 Like
I think thatâs where the new lines will fall if they change the factions. Because what Iâve seen of the Alliance this xpac, Iâm even seeing them kind of splinter a bit as well. Tyrande embracing the darker powers now too at Darkshore and more or less telling Anduin to âget bentâ, and Genn along with her.
I think the factions as we know them may break up. But thatâs a guess Iâm making.
Light vs Void vs Undeath
there has been a heavy emphasis on light vs void, and now Undeath with Sylvanas. I doubt they will kill her, but I think the undeads will be their own faction. thatâs just my guess. I donât know. But I like that idea.
And if you read the comic that came out with the reunifcation of the Windrunner sisters before BFA, you had all 3 of those represented:
Alleria = Void
Vareesa = Light
Sylvanas = Undeath
1 Like
For someone who repeatedly claims not to care about any of this, you sure have a lot to say about it even if you arenât really saying anything of any substance.
saurfang is an embarrassment to his brother Brox and the horde ![:pensive:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/pensive.png?v=6" ":pensive:")
1 Like
Not necessarily. It could have some interest things if done right.
- Horde and alliance have a fundraiser with each mercenary one side. In the next expansion who has most money done through quest get that one.
- Each mercenary has four unique races and some core races in the mix.
- Mercenary could have some interesting side stories going on. Lots of room for variations.
- War mode should be a rumble and not one against othere. True world pvp you do not choose sides.
1 Like
We do not need Saurfang. I have seen enough in a video he only out for himself. he was not pleased when his enemies failed him. The guy is way worse than sylvanas. With her, you know where you stand. Always better to know than go around blinded.
He will use honour like a weapon. Not in a good way. He rather sees you die than do something against his version of honour. Point of the issue we really do not understand his versions. Working with enemies ok, sacrificing troops ok and other contemptible things are fine with him. Makes me question him.
As far as alliance concern. If horde on knees you can bet the worgen and night elves will pounce with or without support. They have the biggest and most imprudent attitude against the horde.
Side note: Most of the stuff written was pretty good. Then you got the other ones. My English may not be great. I can comprehend stuff. Many poster comprehensions are so far off it weird. It like they play two different games.
1 Like
Yeah, cause thatâs a very substantial and necessary comment.
If it wasnât for Sylvanas there wouldnât even be an actual war. The sooner sheâs out the better for everyone, including horde.
2 Likes
Sorry to say, but there is no timeline in which the majority of Horde Paladins arenât Blood Elves. Lots of forum hype, and their representation will be fine across the board, but those BEs arenât going anywhere.
Being Horde means you are convenient. My goals donât include slavish devotion to your ideals.
True, but neither does anyone who chooses Sylvanas. Itâs just that Saurfang simply hits a little more closer to home.
Sylvanas and the Forsaken is part of the Horde only for convenience. Do a little homework on why Thrall, Volâjin and Baine (and his father Cairne before him) are/were in there.
Because corpse waifu has da boobs?
3 Likes
Anduin is going to find it difficult to not wipe out the Horde if he ends up with the chance to do so. He chooses peace, he likely loses at least the Night Elves.
Anduin and Saurfang are literally the only chance the Horde and the Alliance have at peace with one another.
Saurfang is actually the most important piece here. If we lose him, those who would follow him have no leader. The Horde will be swallowed by the Sylvanas loyalists and the war will continue until one of the factions is wiped out.
1 Like
Because she was unware of any recent events like Teldrassyl. Did you not see her face when she learned about this?
Greymane, Tyrande and Jaina will not stand by to watch how Anduin would let us go. Jaina was already denied once by Varrian when she told him to dismantle the Horde, she will def not make the same mistake twice.
As a Horde player even I wouldnt let us walk free after this war, heck I already aggreed with Jaina she shouldve dismantled us during MoP. Im all for the destruction of the Alliance and I would find it ballantly bad story telling if theyd white knight the Alliance again.
So yeah, Death to All who oppose us, Victory for the Sindorei.
There. Fixed that for you. Itâs been stated since VANILLA that Sylvanas only brought the Forsaken into the Horde as an alliance of convenience with no true loyalty to them. While Iâm sure there are individual forsaken who ARE loyal to the Horde and itâs ideals and disagree with the whole âdeath to the living/trust no oneâ schtick (we see several of them throughout the years actually leave the Forskaen and join other organizations like the Argent Dawn/Crusade), they sadly seem to be in the minority.
The TRUE Horde was Thrallâs horde based upon equality of the Horde races, honor, and even showing mercy and compassion to your enemiesâŠnot wholesale genocide of civilains and especially not defiling their corpses by turning them undead and blighting your own soldiers. Sylvanas is using the Horde to further her own goals and cares nothing about anyone but herself and her own continued existence. On some level she cares about the Forsaken, but even that stops as soon as one stops mindlessly obeying her. If that happens she has no qualms killing them. Anything positive she says about the Horde is to my knowledge always in a public setting and not in private; sheâs being a savvy politician and trying to make herself look good in front of her soldiers to ensure their loyaltyâŠthe chances of her honestly believing it are next to zero, as we know her âone is a lieâ lie was that she was proud to be the warchief of the Horde (we know from Lament of the Highborne that she DOES sometimes wish she were still living, and the writersâ confirmed that she doesnât consider murdering and raising Alleria and Vereesa as undead to be betraying them, as in her eyes itâs the only way to get her family back).
Saurfang was defeated in combat at the siege of Lordaeron and was taken prisoner instead of being killed in honorable combat as he wanted (since he knew he couldnât in good conscience continue to follow flat-out evil Sylvanas and the direction he knew she was going to continue to take the Horde). Now, have a problem with that intention if you want and call him a coward, but thatâs Orcish cultureâ honor above everything else whether we as modern humans would consider it stupid or cowardly or not. Also take into account that Saurfang is an old man who literally has PTSD from all the atrocities heâs seen and even committed over his long years. After losing his son the Horde was the only thing he had left to live for, and in his eyes Sylvanas is destroying it and taking it not only in the same dark direction that Garrosh did, but even worse by going the genocide route of the original, demon-controlled Horde.
He doesnât agree to serve the Alliance. Anduin acknowledges that he canât stop Sylvanas alone (and neither can Saurfang. Even if he challenged her to a Makâgora, as soon as she thought she was going to lose sheâd cheatâŠthatâs pretty evident with her âhonor means nothing to a corpseâ line and the fact that she was willing to trick the Horde PC into tracking him down so she could have her Forsaken/dark ranger flunkies assassinate him.
Sylvanas is a good character, but sheâs a tyrant, selfish leader who manipulates and uses people for her own gain and throws them away when she realizes she canât control them anymore. Like it or not her days as Warchief are numbered (thank goodness for those of us who long for the days of Thrallâs Horde), and while due to her popularity I doubt sheâll be killed off (at least in this expansion), sheâll finally more than likely be turned into an out and out antagonist to both factions when we invariably have to team up again for a bigger threat.
4 Likes
That was the old Horde the current Horde has a lot more races then that old Horde. Ideals and methods change over time. The Horde consists of other races too the Forsaken and Blood Elves who care about the preservation of their own kind, a similar goal we achieve and weâll run over corpses to achieve this. The Goblins who dont care about anything honorable as long as it fills their pockets. Honor means nothing to a corpse. And this applies both ways when you are dead whatever honor you had means nothing anymore.
If he really wanted to die he wouldve swinged at Anduin when he had the opportunity, but he didnt he needed him in his little crusade against Sylvanas.
I didnt get tricked, he needed to be retrieved for standing trial, if he wouldnt willingly come he shouldve been killed. Saurfang litteraly decides to kill the dark ranger because he doesnt want to go back.
Of course an Alliance player would say that.
1 Like