Why siding with Saurfang is fundamentally wrong

[Treedragon-silvermoon]

What does this mean? It means that if you side with Saurfang, you’re at best really pushing your luck with the Alliance forgiving the Horde a second time, and at worst you’re inadvertently aiding the extermination of your own faction. You may not like Sylvanas or her methods, but keeping the Horde together is better than inciting a civil war in the middle of an actual war. There is no doubt that even if Saurfang’s rebellion succeeds, we’ll stand zero chance against the Alliance forces in the aftermath. We’ll be too weak from in-fighting. The Alliance can simply do whatever they want with the scraps left of the Horde. Saurfang may very well be the Alliance’s best (unaware) ally in this war.

Sure, but even after Teldrassil, Anduin held optimism that people like Saurfang still exist within The Horde.

“My father told me Varok Saurfang embodied The Honor of The Horde.”

Genn and Jaina growl and get angry, but they still follow Anduins lead, as displayed in the throne room cutscene.

It’s very clear Anduin doesn’t want to wipe out The Horde, he wants both sides to work together.

I agree with what Velaisa says. And I’ll say this:

First, those who subscribe to the “Saurfang is a traitor” line. It appears to me you’ve never played in Northerend and seen the conversation between Saurfang and Garrosh at Warsong Hold. You weren’t part of Vol’jin’s Revolution and knew the part Saurfang played in Mists of Pandaria. You must not know about the fall of Saurfang’s son at the Wrathgate (perpetrated by Sylvanas, by the way, and that has now been officially confirmed by Blizzard staff). Or how Varian Wrynn spared Varok Saurfang at ICC when he was attempting to leave with the body of his fallen son, Draenash.

^^ I’ve said all this for newer players who don’t know all the lore.

Sylvanas openly threatened Varok Saurfang with the curse of undeath, and even threatened to reanimate his son if he didn’t do as she wanted. Then she destroyed everyone in Teldrassil because she got triggered by a few words of a dying night elf laying on the ground.

She is not fit to be Warchief.

“Moral grays” my butt!

You also must not be aware of the vision Thrall and Vol’jin had for the Horde, which was expressed many times by Vol’jin during his revolution and when he was Warchief. You must also not know that Baine shares the same sentiments, which is the reason he is also now opposing Sylvanas as he did Garrosh.

Garrosh also opposed Sylvanas, by the way, in Cataclysm, and you can find that by doing a few simple quests in Silverpine Forest and see what he had to say about her making plague and reanimating corpses. Level a Worgen to 15 and you’ll discover that Garrosh ordered Sylvanas specifically, NOT to make blight, but she defied him anyways. Level a lowbie on Horde and in Silverpine you discover what he thinks about her reanimations. During Siege of Orgrimmat Loer’themar threatens to deal with Sylvanas himself on the spot when she offer to reanimate his fallen blood elf soldiers.

The members of the Horde do not take kindly to their actions. They are silently biting their lips and biding their time with her. She cares nothing for their lives and they’re just meat shields to her.

Anduin himself said, specifically to Sylvanas, “Only one of us wanted this war”.

When Saurfang was captured, Anduin also told him that they would speak of honor and how it could be restored.

So the OPs assumption that if there was a coup that removed Sylvanas one way or another, that the Alliance would still wipe out the Horde- there are still some who have ties to the Alliance. Baine has ties with Jaina and Anduin, and that was made evident even more so in the novel War Crimes.

Shadows of the Horde provides more insight as to why the human Tyrathan Khort was at Vol’jin’s Funeral, and why at Trueshot Lodge, he refers to a “promise to keep”. Because in the novel he and Vol’jin both were found gravely wounded and nursed back to health by the Shado Pan. They formed a bond of friendship and eventually made a pact: If one of them dies, the other will avenge.

By the way, in that same novel, Taran Zhu of the Shado Pan made an interesting observation about Vol’jin- that he was more like Tuishi than Huojin. In other words, he was more patient and thoughtful in his actions as the Tuishi are. Oh, and while we’re at it, go roll a new troll and see what Vol’jin says to Garrosh and you can see the foundation that was laid for his eventual rebellion.

So there is a lot more than most people think where the Horde and Alliance have in common. This game is very lore rich. that’s why I hate how they changed the leveling because now you can skip zones and if you’re new you can miss some very good lore that fills in some of these gaps where some of this makes more sense.

There are some among the player base that want the other faction destroyed no matter what you say. Horde that want Alliance destroyed absolutely, and visa versa. I really don’t care about their opinions. I don’t think the game can last if this is maintained forever. And every xpac does have the one thing that the Horde and Alliance end up teaming up over. BFA will be no different. “Battle for Azeroth” is not about the struggle between the Horde and Alliance. They’ll have to team up again to save Azeroth from something else. They always do.

I have also seen a growing number of players, and I am among them, who favor either uniting or dismantling the faction as we know it and finally uniting Azeroth.

And I saw something before the xpac how they were talking about changing the factions, I don’t know in what way. But if it means I can have orcs, humans, blood elves, trolls, and tauren and be on either side of whatever the new factions are, I’m all for it.

How can we have things like PVP? Well after all, there will still be people who “just can’t get along”. Or perhaps it can just take a new form, such as gladiator combat or some other medium. I think in terms of the game your old BGs and such would just remain as a feature of the game for people who want to play those. But I’m just guessing about that. I don’t even know how these faction changes they were talking about are going to play out. Just that they said something about it.

This wall of text hits for 990k Crit!