This is the truth. People don’t care if you play on their server or not.
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People really put too much emphasis on community, when it hasn’t existed for some time. Its not coming back, either. We aren’t the same people we were 15 years ago.
As I mentioned in another thread, what most remember as the “community” in OG Vanilla and BC was the Guilds. You remember how much fun and the community of your guild.
As I also mentioned, those that weren’t fortunate enough to be an active member of one of those top guilds didn’t see that wonderful “community”. There is no rose colored nostalgia of the Vanilla/BC community for the 35% (difference between the 5% who raided in BC vs the 40% who did in WotLK) who never saw the inside of a raid, although they may have wanted to, during that time because we were not part of that Guild community.
We have no illusions of the purity of the Vanilla/BC community that only existed if you were a member of a good raiding Guild. WotLK started the end of the Guilds playing gatekeeper to endgame. And, it’s never coming back, because the majority of us didn’t like it in the first place. Many, like me, enjoyed Wrath, where being in a large prominent Guild was certainly beneficial, but not almost mandatory to raid.
10-man raids allowed Casual or Social guilds a chance to enjoy end-game, too. Maybe not at the highest level. But I was happy to just get to stab Arthas in 10-man. Much admiration to those that downed him in 25HM, but I’m not quite dedicated, nor have the time to commit to reaching that level.
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There wasn’t a server community. Just cliques similar to an highschool. If you just played around people with similar playstyles, then that was the game total experience, and how the landscape seemed to playout.
LFD will be beneficial to more than disadvantageous.
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This is pretty much what I was saying. If you were in a good Guild, you remember the “great server community” of BC. If you weren’t you didn’t. It wasn’t a great community, you just were in a Guild with a bunch of people you liked.
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This person gets it. Vanilla was a guild centric game. TBC was also a guild centric game. Vanilla had more community by virtue that guild sizes were a lot larger than TBC. And TBC more so than Wrath. But the 2 day 1 full servers I played on, it was the raiding guilds and everyone else. But the raiding guild community was tight - even cross server.
Wrath took away a lot of those requirements. In Classic, guilds are also NOT a requirement. Things can be pugged or are so easy you can just raid log. Both are a big reason why “community” just isn’t there.
Of course that was also the case in vanilla, people just weren’t doing it for various reasons. Reasons which are largely impossible to recreate in classic as they were not inherent to the actual game mechanics.
So there was nothing intrinsic to vanilla/TBC that created “community” nor anything in wrath that really damaged it.
C’mon Zir. It’s all relative. Vanilla had more community. I know you just like to troll, but don’t take everything I say as trying to hate on whatever game that you like. People can like what ever game they want. No game is better than the other. It’s just me, but TBC and anything after that just wasn’t my cup of tea.
And since you want to troll anything non Wrath (I think that’s your game I’m assuming?), I’ll make you happy also. Vanilla while being the peak of community play, the community play aspect also created HUGE problems and gate keeping. While I personally like them, objectively they were problems. Keeping 40 people around was a lot of work and terrible game design. Not giving more people the opportunity to see (not necessary beat) raids was terrible game design. You had the big raiding guilds and the nobodies. With the big guilds destroying the nobody guilds when they poached their players.
But like it or not Zir, Vanilla was far more community oriented by far than any other xpac by virtue of being so dependent on larger amounts of people for everything - for better and for worse.
Hmm… the only thing that took more people was raiding. Leveling was always easily soloable, dungeons were 5-15 man and by 1.12 only 1 dungeon was even 10 man. There were what 4 raids that took more people? And what we saw in classic is that that in and of itself doesn’t create community, since we certainly didn’t get the same experience in classic as we did in vanilla.
All I’ve said is that the vanilla experience was created by a lot more than just the actual game mechanics of vanilla, which classic rather handily demonstrated.
You can have as much community as you want, regardless of which expansion you are playing. You can find communities within retail too if you actually try to.
The problem is most players these days are ego-centric and selfish, and generally go by the thought process of “Got mine, I don’t care” and actively work against a community aspect.
If you want a community, you will find it, no matter what version of the game you are on. This community argument is nothing but a weak attempt to gatekeep.
You can’t always find communities and I tried. I had to quit for a couple of expansions and when I came back everyone I played with was gone. I joined guild after guild and couldn’t find a community of players. No one talked in guild chat and guilds kept losing players until no one was on. Not being able to find a good guild was one reason I quit in BfA, and I really tried for a for a few expansions. I suppose you can claim I just wasn’t good at making friends and there’s a certain amount of truth to that. But I was in several guilds in vanilla, BC and wrath and they were all good and I found them easily.
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While time leveling has been taken away, it was moved towards end game. But the biggest reason is that it’s a newer experience that players need extra time to solve. And that not everything was solved for them. It’s alot less an faq walkthrough guide where things just roll over and die. It’s actually a newish experience.
And with that comes players needing more patience , perseverance and adaptability. Not exactly the strong suit of today’s players.
Except you’re not taking a random sampling of players and dropping them into that experience, the people playing SoM knew exactly what they were getting and choose to do it. And if SoM requires more effort than vanilla that’s fine, it explicitly advertised itself as not trying to recreate vanilla, vanilla didn’t require that which is what we saw with classic.
Lol. Vanilla did. Classic vanilla didn’t.
Classic was the same game from a mechanics stand point as vanilla, which is all I’ve been saying, the atmosphere in vanilla was not created by the actual game play mechanics.
In general you’re correct.
The fact that classic was a gated game where as vanilla was a living progressive one is what makes them night and day. Vanilla required those attributes especially among raiders at patch for that reason alone. This can be said for any game. Let’s not use the interchangeably. One was already figured out. The other wasn’t.
Wow I responded to the wrong thread … sorry zir lol
Most did just what they do today, they looked up what to do they weren’t figuring it out themselves. The bigger difference I saw was that WoW broke the MMO RPG out of a niche and into main stream so there was a huge influx of players who had no idea how to handle the basic concepts of an MMO RPG.
And by that I don’t mean the details of specific encounters but just the general way to conduct oneself in an MMO RPG. What loot etiquette is, how to handle mobs and resource nodes in the open world, the holy trinity etc… Classic couldn’t recreate that, SoM can’t recreate that.
Originally the game kind of forced you to be social. You had to group up. You had to make friends. And Blizzard removed all that over the years. Starting really with the Dungeon Finder in Wrath.
WoW just became a lobby game where you queue up for things, join random strangers, do your thing, and move on. Never see or talk to them again. There’s literally no reason to communicate with anyone outside of Mythics. Other players might as well be bots. I don’t know how anyone calls WoW an mmorpg anymore. They’ve completely forsaken the mmo audience.
And it was sad to see that same warped audience infect Classic. Especially after TBC’s boost, which brought them in even bigger droves. They treat it like Retail. Just look at the forums. I guess that was inevitable. The community makes an mmo, and the community is nothing like it was back in the day. And it’s the devs’ fault for the direction they took this game. But it is what it is and it’s not going to change.
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