Why is the story so terrible?

They’ve not had a period that’s humbled them enough to the point that they would understand and take in criticism or feedback from the community, this has led them with having a sense of excessive pride and that shows in the writing team who consistently churn out horse manure and think it’s on par with Game of Thrones or Avengers which they half-@ssedly try to copy from to make it seem like they’re intelligent and understand good storytelling.

Think about Zovaal, he is basically Thanos but without all the interesting parts of the character. Imagine Thanos but it’s just the infinity gauntlet and not the tragic decisions he makes to reach his dream of a perfectly balanced future. That’s Zovaal.

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Anyone who might’ve cared for Warcrafts story and player interests as gamers has long since walked out the door.

Most of who work for Blizzard nowadays will be corporate pleasers, disconnected from everything else other than the twisted hierarchy that ticks behind the curtains.

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Sylvanas this xpac:

Zovaal reacting to Sylvanas finally realizing he’s the bad guy, and Zovaal’s actual motivations:

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They’re telling the story they want to tell and not caring that it’s hated because we haven’t all up and left yet, so they’re still getting our money, which is all that matters to them.

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Creative writing interns fresh out of college. changing political climate (no lie)

Art/wrting students are taking a lot of social justice theme’d classes so they reflect it in their writing. A lot of modern young adults don’t care for high fantasy as it isn’t inclusive. They also reflect themselves in the characters a lot and write characters as if the characters would have modern real world knowledge education.

They’re also Anti punishment which means anti justice. it’s reflective of their real world believe of the justice system should be dismantled and truly believe around 95% of all the prison population in real life is in there for no other reason than besides of systematic hate towards groups of people so their writings reflect that.

They don’t like to consider other political or realistic leanings for people in leadership positions even in terms of fiction as they believe real world reflections would be offensive out right in any context. which is why the horde, a warband of nations and the alliance, a monarchy that’s suppose to be allied nations, operate in similar ways and don’t actually have any real known in lore structure to them because the interns write them in a similar manner of what their ideal world would be run like, taken from years of influence from their history and politic classes humanities courses at University of California, Berkeley/Harvard/NYU and where ever else the company demands they get their talent from.

More importantly a lot of these creative writing interns don’t ultimately care, it’s something cool to put on their resume. and as i’m almost positive the company demands to get their students from private ivy league schools most CW students spend a lot of time studying or participating in what the campus has to offer (and not immersing ones self in WoW.) So i’m saying i highly doubt that any of the 22 year olds finishing school that were born in 2000 had a chance to grow up playing WoW at it’s height and popularity so they didn’t have the dream of working for blizzard. Ultimately for the CW students blizzard is a lucky mark on their resume as they will move on to other companies that need writers for shows and netflix, ect ect.

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The current plot has the genocide + assault survivor who later committed suicide and then later did genocidal war crimes being stripped of all agency within the narrative cuz she’s been manipulated by WoW Lucifer for ten years

This story is many things, a beacon of social justice it is not

By any means.

In any way.

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The guy who created the World left, and the first thing the company did was take the book he made to be a lasting canon and chucked it out the window by saying it was just from the point of view of the Titans.

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Metzen retired.

It’s been happening for a while that resonant intellectual properties are given to people who don’t respect the setting. We see it in films and in television, we see it in games, and it’s happening now in Blizzard.

Because the “old guard” isn’t around in the same capacity as it used to be, the people who have been given the charge to craft the evolution of a world have a divergent vision of what that world should be that the original architects did not have.

Flat out, I lay this at the feet of Danuser and Golden. They’re motivated by more than telling a story. I don’t know exactly what they’re trying to accomplish, but I’m not seeing the same reverence toward the characters and what they were before they had a chance to take a spin with it.

Comic book characters have been around for decades. Even before their original creators died, they were being written by others at times. When Miller wrote Batman, he didn’t invalidate what was established by Kane and Finger. Bendis and Slott evolved Spider-Man, but didn’t make us feel like we never understood them. At the very least, they didn’t reach back into previous storylines that they did not write to try and change what we thought was happening.

Danuser is not doing that. Many of the character’s he’s currently driving were not created by him, had their stories and motivations details in ways that were understood and relateable. I go in detail about this in a post I wrote about the three “eras” of Sylvanas here: A Tale of Two Sylvies and why the Jailer Reveal was Bad

The story is bad because everything we thought we knew about the major characters is a lie, and we’re shown that we never really understood them. The Jailer revealed that Sylvanas has lied to us since after Wrath, and that’s something this current writing team decided when the previous team were writing her a completely different way.

This isn’t a simple redefinition of a character either. This is a lot closer to Bruce Wayne saying the death of his parents had nothing at all to do with his decision to be a crime fighter, despite decades of the character’s motivation being understood as inexorably connected to that event, all because the current writer has a vision different than the creator.

The writers are misleading the players. They’re doing that by reaching into parts of the story they were not involved in and changing what those events meant. It’s nothing short of narrative desecration and I don’t know how they can call themselves writers if they can’t tell a story without erasing the intent of those who not only came before them, but built the world that enables them to prance about in this way.

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This is about as succinct and accurate as it gets, especially for the Horde.

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Zovaal is a character with a death motif who believes there is a fundamental problem with the universe. His plan to solve this is gathering an army of followers from across the universe - including numerous lesser villains, and then acquiring five cosmic items to rewrite reality. Sounds like MCU Thanos to me (comic Thanos killed half the universe because he had a crush on the Grim Reaper, who’s a woman in Marvel comics).

(As a bonus, they’re both bald, buff guys with six-letter names and a death motif; the Marvel character Thanos was inspired by/named after Thanatos, the personification of death to the ancient Greeks)

Reading this, I just realized it is very similar to Sargeras as well as Thanos.

All sorts of recurring themes in the game unfortunately.

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You identified a big part of the problem. The only thing I have to add is these ideologues among the writers have also worked in some anti-religious sentiment - which is a feather in the social justice cap and goes hand-in-hand with their anti punishment sentiment (or maybe anti-punishment comes from their hatred of religion - it’s a “which came first, the chicken or the egg?” situation)

This started by using the naaru character Xe’ra to undermine the good reputation of the naaru (they even admitted this agenda in an interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PBzHRc4FZY&t=27m55s ). The writers and some of the fans project authority figures they don’t like onto Xe’ra. How do I know this? They kill Xe’ra off by having an edgy character kill her in a rejection of her attempt to forcibly purify him, then bring back an AU version of her as a villain (way to have your cake and eat it too, writers).

This is followed by villain-batting Yrel and the AU Draenei - sweeping the AU Draenei’s legitimate grievances under the rug - to tell the story “Light fanaticism bad 2, electric boogaloo”, which we’ve already done with the Scarlet Crusade, so why retread old ground unless you’re pushing a message on the audience. The only reason this clear agenda has survived so far is because it’s popular with parts of the fanbase.

And right here in the latest expansion, we find out the cosmic justice system is broken. In fact, I made a thread on this anti-punishment subject myself Is the World of Warcraft story anti-justice?

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I’m aware of your post it’s what actually made me draw some conclusions.

The thing is, is we really are in our real world hitting a new wave of anti-justice and anti-punishment and it’s really being taught in colleges across the U.S and many Western countries in general.
a lot of modern young adults have been told and really do believe that punishment any type is cruel. which is why we see a huge wave of bonds being waved, shoplifting made legal as false connection being made between shoplifting and being in need was made.
Huge increase of attacks by the homeless because you can no longer arrest and charge someone on mental health. ect, ect.

In other countries outside the US such as europe and Australia you saw people being forgiven for murders and attacking children and only getting 15 years in prison with parole after 5 years. We are living in an anti-justice world, and the writers who believe that is just are reflecting that in WoW.

Sylvanas can do tons of awful things but she can’t be punished for it as captial punishment is cruel and imprisonment is cruel and they teach that anyone and everyone can be redeemed and rehabilitated and go on to live an ideal life. Which is actually completely false btw.

Basically accountability for actions of any type is cruelty. but accountability for something someone said on twitter 11 years ago is normal.

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Part of my guess is they wanted to make Sylvanas(the literal final thread from Warcraft 3) have as “metal” an ending as possible and yet Blizzard probably never figure out a way to do. In a way, she is the Kerrigan of Warcraft and we know Kerrigan’s ending was controversial. Sylvanas, having existed longer means her ending would probably end up more controversial.

Don’t be daft, if anything we have seen the police and governments crack down too heavily on people. Literal kids being handcuffed or shot behind their backs. Honestly, if say the Purge of Dalaran was done now in WoW, it would have a very different tone from when it was done back in MoP(at that point the “war on terror” was still pretty big on people’s mind)

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While justice hasn’t gone completely from our world, you have a point.

In case you wonder why I focus on this new “Light bad” stuff getting shoehorned into the lore, the answer is in this question; do we see fanaticism from anyone else?

  • Do we have any fanatical Titan-worshipping Dwarfs?
  • Do we have any fanatical followers of the Wild Gods? Maybe D.H.E.T.A, but every villainous druid encountered so far either defected to Ragarnos, was corrupted by the Emerald Nightmare or it’s perspective due to the Alliance vs Horde conflict.
  • Do we have fanatical loa worshippers?
  • Do we have fanatical Old God worshippers?
    I think it’s possible for the last two, but in their case, such as worshippers of Hakkar or the Void cultists, they’re acting in accordance with their masters - the Old Gods want to make a Void titan to destroy the universe, and Hakkar is a pretty vicious Loa.

Back on the subject of anti-punishment, I just remembered another character whose misdeeds go unaddressed - Odyn. The rise of Helya and her Val’kyr, and everything that they’ve done, is entirely his fault and we never get to call him out on it.

Dwarves used to be portrayed as rather fanatical in digging up titan relics, at least. It got pared back into being more neutral content with Brann Bronzebeard, but early horde questing showed them trying to push tauren off of their native lands and it resulted in the extinction of a tribe over it.
I’m pretty sure the night elves’ “shoot first, ask questions later” shtick over protecting nature wasn’t meant to be viewed as a positive thing since it resulted in needless death, but some people seem all over that for some reason so I dunno.
Hakkar is the biggest example of fanatic worship of a bad loa, but we’ve also seen multiple examples of hostile trolls cannibalizing their own gods. And it’s likely that Bwonsamdi just barely dodged being killed off due to his voice acting, just like Denathrius. That would have resulted in troll religion effectively being villain batted, and would have been the second time a horde race’s religion was warped in this manner (the first being the orcs’ shamanism).
All old god worshippers are fanatical. Them going insane is the point. Doomsday cults and the Tidepriest corruption are two examples of that.

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I love the story

Hey, it was his idea to take the Primus sigil to Torghast! For some reason!

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There is like 100 ways they could’ve let the Jailer get the sigil. Like, I don’t know. Maybe using that captured Fatescribe and have him infiltrate our ranks and reveal himself right as we leave Torghast with the Primus. But nope, just have the worst possible idea result in it’s respective outcome.

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Easy.

World of Warcraft is an MMO. So long as it’s making a profit, it will continue going forever.

This means that the story can never, ever, ever find a resolution. And a story without resolution is just a melodrama.

Characters will heel-face-turn, face-heel-turn, die, come back, die again, become undead, get resurrected, and so on. Writers will come and go changing all character personalities and backgrounds as they do. The story will constantly mutate as continuity edits are made and retcons are made to suit current needs, the end boss will always be serving 'a greater master," and nothing, nothing will EVER find a resolution.

Because when the story resolves is when the servers are put on maintenance mode.