Why is the story so terrible?

There are many reasons why the story has failed, almost all more fo to the higher ups of the story department then the average quest writer/lore flesher-outer.

Let’s start with the most simple, there is a very very real case of “Running the Asylum” in WoW’s writing department. For those not in the know, running the Asylum is when the people put in charge of the product are former fans who want to enforce their vision on the propertly. It’s very common in comics, where writers begin overpromoting their favorite characters. Same things happened in WoW, Anduin, Jaina, Sylvanas, and Baine are overpromoted and overused to the point people are tired of them. This also leads to the game getting more black and white as time goes on, which causes numerous problems in that one of the core concepts of the game (alliance and horde).

Another issue is that WoW’s structure just isn’t good for an ubernarrative. In every single expansion the same song and dance has been done “The Zone stories and lore are far superior to the main story”. This is because theres more freedom for the rest of the team, and more importantly, fits the MMO Structure a lot better. Exploring the World is more engaging to the players then seeing Sylvanas and Jaina yell at each other nonstop. The best Villain we’ve had was Garrosh, largely because he was unintentional.

14 Likes

While we can agree that this is the case, I am not quite sure the narrative team would agree.

I think Tyrande as evidenced by what she did in that particular scene that you referenced, she wants Garrosh dead and she has been charged with doing, just as Baine has been, doing the very best she can to make sure that this orc receives what she and many others perceive as the only … the ONLY real justice.

Ian Bates: This one is … I’m going to make it as spoiler-free as possible … The August Celestial’s verdict (without giving it away) is quite odd
Christie Golden We can’t really comprehend how they think, and I won’t go so far as to say they see the future; because I honestly don’t know one way or the other; but I do think that they are wiser than we are and they are unburdened by things that we are. So they are actually as impartial as impartial can be.

We are mortals, and most of us in Warcraft, most of the races are short-lived. They are not thousands of years old. Some of them are, but not all of them; and they are very immediate and these are infinite creatures; and I think they see all ends, and what may seem very frustrating may turn out to be: “Ooooh … got it!”

© https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/blizzplanet-interview-world-of-warcraft-war-crimes-by-christie-golden

Which makes me think that they have a very different idea about the topic of justice. Like, there might be “different kinds” of justice. Maybe “one justice to rule them all” or something. Or that a mere mortals can’t comprehend whatever the grand plan for the plot twists they have in store. Or that any “justice” system which is not how they want to treat the characters they like must be wrong.

(similar to “oh, burned the tree™ with civilians - stay fight for Sylvanas; touched a military person - omg! Free will! How dare she to touch Jaina’s brother?!” I mean, what could scream “nepotism” louder than such treatment?)

I mean, the whole premise falls apart just after a firm look at it, but I guess when people are busy praising each others’ ideas, it’s easy to be stuck in such odd thinking.


gl hf

9 Likes

I guess that they would never have an chance to tell what they want to the audience this big with their own ideas / setting / games. So they use the brand name without the brand identity so to say.

I saw this approach metioned before in relation to TV shows. iirc it was described as “if a story is good, it does not matter if it does not fit the canon”.

Which might be a valid approach, however:

  • what’s the target audience to define if the story ended up being “good”?
  • what are the lessons learned from the customer reaction?
  • is the existing audience even interested in this approach?

Regardless of how good a story might be, sometimes it might not be suitable for the audience.

Sometimes the story feels like the devs taking old ideas and going like “oh, but we can this thing better!”

And then we get what we get.

I think I saw a mention of something similar at one point:

But overall, the dev process seems to be “design by committee approach” according to their own admission.

I am not sure if it’s about the freedom. From what I can see, the devs can be good with the stories that rely on a single idea or emotion. Something short, like cinematic story, or a single quest line.

Simultaneously these stories, that usually end within a single patch, or even smaller in scope, or short character interactions, individual lines, those things actually are rather well received. But blizz for some reason does not capitalize on what they do well, and instead of episodic adventures with possibly common theme, they try to push epicness, long wannabe complex stories, etc.


gl hf

6 Likes

That is true, and I have admitted in the past Golden can write some good short stories.

Why blizzard doesn’t do that might honestly be one of two things. Shareholders or Pride. They really seem to want to be the Game of Thrones of Video Games, and whether this is from Corporate Mandate or Stubborn belief thats how you make a good story i don’t know.

5 Likes

I really loved Rise of the Horde. But feel like she’s not only grown complacent, but doesn’t have any sort of peer review anymore. She writes dialogue like, “I will never serve,” and people like Danuser think it’s golden. Ironic.

Remember when Sylvanas exclaimed the Horde was nothing?
Remember when Sylvanas was trying to convince the Jailer to spare her friends?
The writers don’t.

11 Likes

Inasmuch writers write what they know, makes you wonder

The alleged “leak” from this past sunday (from 4chan, of all things) finally got on my youtube/twitter feed today

Don’t think it’s real tbh, but I think the story’s incoherence and inconsistency speaks for itself that the vision within the writer room is not stable.

2 Likes

I do have to say that I don’t think that this is just down to Golden, nor is it necessarily her fault. She’s an author, her expertise is in that medium, and not in video games, where you get substantially fewer words to work with, and where a lot of your storytelling has to come out through environments and visual information.

I also detect a bit of interference in favor of preserving certain characters and preserving stories of a ‘requisite simplicity’.

1 Like

That’s the sense I get with some people. I went on a tear in a different thread about how Shadowlands feels like another person’s brain child, developed and fleshed out before, perhaps for an IP of their own, and bolted onto WoW. I think it’s Danuser’s.

I can’t prove that except to infer it from the fact he wrote for Everquest before writing for WoW in an era when every game writer wants to be like Metzen.

1 Like

Where they really?
Not really. People are simply seeing the mistakes for the first time, because this time Players are impaced and pur factions were hurt with this stupid narrative.

This time it wasn’t the Scourge or the Legion which became weak and pathetic antahniosts. More so the Legion than the former.
Look at WoD and you know anything you need to know about BfA.

No. They absolutly aren’t.

Wrong it’s not allowed to them. At least not the important ones.

The lead writer thought GoT season 8 was brilliant and they are all muh Marvel best movie ever fanboys. You can not get through to them that the writing is bad and any attempt to is just assault to the highest degree. They will block out any negativity and surround themselves with yes men who agree with every single thing they write. WoW is dead.

10 Likes

For those who can leave some comments, there was a tweet about one of recent movies

I know next to nothing about the character (Black Widow) or the movie, so, can’t comment. But maybe somebody knows more about if it’s good, if it’s not, how true to the source material the movie adaptation is, how among other movies of the super hero kind it adressed the fan feedback, etc.

Or if it’s a GoT 8 repeat.


gl hf

Is that the leak where the plan is for Sylvanas to become the new Arbiter? Because that would be the stupidest story decision Blizzard could possibly make right now. And it’s also the decision I say they’re going to make.

Mark my words; as much as I don’t want it to happen, Sylvanas will be the new Arbiter.

2 Likes

It’s good, not great. A lot like Captain America: The Winter Soldier in its themes, but not as good. Biggest complaints are likely the Taskmaster reveal, which if you don’t read comics you won’t really care about, but if you do you might compare it to the Mandarin reveal from Iron Man 3.

EDIT: Personally I was okay with the ‘new’ Taskmaster, since it was obvious from the trailers that we weren’t getting the comics-accurate cynical wise-cracking semi-Deadpool version of the character in the first place.

1 Like

I’m guessing this is yet another thread that was in GD that got dumped in the story forums.

This seriously needs to stop.

2 Likes

At least this one actually is about story.

3 Likes

Yeah we took it over and the OPs jumped ship because we scare them.

4 Likes

Garrosh cinematic was apparently a personal effort of one dev

14 Likes

I think a major thing is, and maybe someone has touched on it and I missed it, but the issue with the story telling, is that it is no longer through the lens of the Heroes like it was in the RTS games. (WC3, etc…)

In WC3, you played as the main characters. You were Arthas, Illdian, Jania, etc. You got to play and experience those character’s story arcs, which made them seem fulfilling. That’s what gave you the background in their stories.



Imagine a WC4 was released and you got to play as Garrosh, you commanded armies, won battles and played through his eyes. The story and his character development would have been so much more personal.

Imagine a WC5 was released and you got to play as Slyvanas, you threw yourself from the top of ICC and worked your way through the Maw. You met the Valkyries and experienced her story, all those behind the scene deals and you understood her character. (Remember playing Illidan and Tyrande in WC3?)



We do not get those same feelings now. We don’t get to see character development through the character’s eyes. We have to read comics, books, youtube videos, etc… to try and piece all this stuff together.

That’s usually where a lot of retcons come up, there are so many platforms that Blizzard themselves cannot keep track anymore.



WoW Vanilla was great, because it was an established world, from WC3, that you were just thrown into. You played the part of a peon, and it worked because the looming threats of WC3, the more “adult” (illidan, Kael, Vashj, etc) problems were beyond your scope.

You weren’t a “hero” and that was above your pay-grade.

In BfA, Drustvar was great because you went back to being a peon. You weren’t some overlord planet god killing titan. You were helping a town with a Witch problem.



Come the end of Vanilla, and into TBC, you started to become the focal point of the story because Blizzard was no longer going to produce RTS games. This is when the story began to downward spiral.

TBC had awful lore, and completely ruined a lot of major characters, if I remember correctly. It didn’t feel like it did Illdian, Kael and Vashj justice. But it had a strong tie in with WC3 that kept players around.

WotLK had a very similar aspect to it. It was Arthas. THEE Arthas. It wasn’t an exceptionally great story either, but people wanted to see the story through because it was such a huge aspect of WC3.



After WotLK, the player base dropped exponentially because of this. The story no longer had the backbone of the RTS games to keep it alive.

And as you moved into the spot light as, I’m the front and center hero this is now MY story, certain aspects of the game had to change.



This becomes a problem for two main reasons.

First, as mentioned before, the story is not told through the eyes of the “Heroes.” Slyvanas, Anduin, etc… and you lose interest in these heroes, you don’t get to experience the little things that make the character arch great.

Again, imagine you played as Anduin and you fought at the Broken Shore with Varian, you experienced the game play through his eyes and you couldn’t save your father. That feels so much more impactful.

Second, when this becomes YOUR STORY, you’d like to have choice in the matter. When things happen in the game, for an RPG, you want to be able to make “meaningful choices” when it comes to major plot devices and have those choices matter.

You don’t get that same feeling you do when you play a game such as SW:KotOR, or even Fable.



Now, the “story” becomes terrible because it compounds upon itself. You don’t experience these major character developments, and learn why they are doing it through their eyes.

Slyvanas and Zovaal aren’t interesting because we don’t know anything about what they are doing and why they are doing it. So none of it makes sense, to us.

That would all be fine and dandy, having secrecy, if our actions were our own. If we could make meaningful choices in the game that impacted the storyline to our liking.



You aren’t seeing their storyline and you aren’t given the ability to create your own. You are just following along as a mindless drone.



1 Like

One thing i want to add here though about golden, and im not trying to defend her.

Golden is actually a pretty good writer, when she is given bounds to work within. For example, her arthus book was actually really really good, because she had a set start and a set end, and as long as she got there it was all gtood, and the arthus book honestly is one of the best books in warcraft.

HOWEVER, it is of my opinion, i personally dont think she has a vested interest in the story outside of a paycheck. Im sure she finds it very fun, very interesting, but i dont think she lives and breaths it and has a driving passion for it to the degree the creators had and or still have. And i personally thing that lack of love and passion for the warcraft setting leads to some and or many of the bad writing choices.

As for the other dude he jus sucks at story telling and is self inserting himself.

and yet we KILLED an Old God towards the end…