In order to set Derek free, our player characters are forced to help Baine take over the Forsaken ship where he is kept captive. Baine ultimately asks us to get keys and whatnot, and we are forced to attack the Horde members defending the ship. Some of the Forsaken surrender and leave but others are killed, and Baine is perfectly okay with this. Why?
Is it just me or is Baine super hypocritical? I mean I thought he was just forgetful since he pretty much forgot about the Alliance attack on Zandalar, but this is just absurd.
My favourite part is when Nathanos kills Zelling with an arrow. Baine goes !!! Hilarious Where were these emotions when he was killing the Forsaken on that ship? Is it just me or is Baine just another one of the Horde characters this xpac that hides behind “muh honour” speeches to further plot now.
I would assign that to bad and forgetful writing unless you think Baine would really go around murdering people he’s fought alongside for years against multiple world ending threats with a straight face, yet somehow only feels sorry for Alliance deaths.
Hmm … well one could argue that they have Forsaken their core tenant of “Free Will” to some extent; and despite his attempts to spare some of them Baine is an idealist, so I suppose there is some wiggle room for him there. He see’s Derek as an affront to what the Forsaken are supposedly supposed to stand for; and by extension he likely fears how Sylvie perceives the cultures of the other Horde races if she can’t even be bothered to care about her own people’s anymore.
I could also turn this question back around. IF Sylvanas actually did want to push Baine into being her delivery method for her sleeper agent, which explains why she made torturing him such a public thing … wouldn’t that suggest that any soldiers killed by Baine were considered acceptable losses (and planned for)? If Baine really did do what she wanted him to (which, it does appear that’s a possibility) why is it acceptable for her to risk/sacrifice her own Forsaken to sell a facade?
Baine says the Forsaken involved are fanatical Sylvanas supporters. Sylvanas is obviously evil and a threat to the Horde. This means her supporters are either evil or a threat to the Horde.
The “Honor Horde” ultimately do not view Forsaken as dignified individuals with their own experiences and biases.
Baine’s line of “Life is not worth living if we cannot be true to ourselves” is extremely hilarious from the perspective of a Forsaken character.
I would like to believe Blizzard is so clever that they intend for this to be a deeply ironic glimpse into Baine’s personality.
You know what? I know this was probably supposed to be a fairly snakry comment, but I’m gonna roll with it.
I think Baine legitimately hates the Horde, or at the very least, hates what the Horde has become and represents. I think he even resents his father for swearing that oath of Loyalty to Thrall all of those years ago.
Think about it. The Orcs under Garrosh (and now under Sylvanas), Gallywix and his Goblins, and the Forsaken in general stand against a Tauren’s Major beliefs (The Earth Mother). The tear apart, scar and blight any and all lands those three races are primary factions in. They have no semblance of self control and have zero issues killing the land around them for their own personal gains.
He’s stuck upholding an oath of Loyalty that his Dead Dad made to a Warchief that no longer bothers with the Horde, all the while this “family” he’s apart of continues to disrespect everything his people stand for. He’s honestly probably been looking for an excuse since Cataclysm.
Besides, Sylvanas kills off Horde Soldiers just because she can. They’re disposable to her, and quite honestly, she can bring them back if she’s so inclined. And besides, when they’re brought back, they’re like, WAY more loyal than before, so it’s not like she’s actually loosing anything to Baine doing this.
I wish they would have at least spared Baine a moment to mourn the loss of Forsaken life even if he felt he had no choice but to unjustly murder them, after all it was the Tauren who brought the Forsaken into the Horde. The fact that it doesn’t even seem to bother him at all in the scenario kind of surprises me.
The only time I have seen Sylvanas kill off Horde soldiers was during the Battle for Lordaeron, and that was a tactical decision that nearly won the battle until Jaina showed up. In some ways Baine and Saurfang have killed way more Horde soldiers, indirectly through prolonging the faction war, than Sylvanas ever has. Again I hope Blizzard is making a deeper point with all of this.
And that’s what makes me think he hates the Horde, or the Forsaken at the very least. They’re just there constantly reminding him of all the mistakes his father made, and the situation he put his people into.
I’m still sticking by my Theory that Sylvanas needs more bodies for her ever loyal army of the freshly raised. The longer she can keep the fighting going, the stronger she becomes. Suarfang and Baine are playing right into her hands. She doesn’t need living, breathing soldiers. She just needs to have the bodies available.
I like this idea of Baine resenting the Tauren and the Horde and Cairne. It certainly goes a long way toward explaining how Blizzard has written his character over the years. Remember in the cinematic where Sylvanas is appointed Warchief by Vol’jin, Baine is disappointed it isn’t him. He definitely has a chip on his shoulder.
I don’t think Sylvanas is comic-book villain to that degree despite the memes. This is a character that routinely puts herself on the front-lines despite risking a permanent shadowy Hell. She’s chaotic neutral, not chaotic evil.
The Forsaken he kills are loyalists to an evil leader and taking part in the defilement of a supposed Forsaken virtue of free will. Derek is innocent. Zelling was executed by order of said evil leader for defying her.
I don’t think he resents the Tauren, but the Horde and his father yes. As for Vol’jin choosing Sylvanas over Basic Campfire, let alone Baine, I think her appointment to Warchief surprised all of the Horde Leaders. Vol’jin flat out says he didn’t trust her, and I very much doubt Baine did either. He probably felt a second Garrosh was around the corner.
They have done a very poor job of showing her as anything but Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain levels of evil. We can blame Suarfang for not killing Malfurion all we want, but at the end of the day she burned the Tree down to spite a dying Night Elf that felt bad for her. She let someone get in her head and that’s what made her throw her original plans out the window (though I do blame the writing on this more than I do Sylvanas as a character).
I only include resenting the Tauren to mean he resents the Tauren for 1) bringing the Forsaken (and ultimately the Blood Elves) into the Horde and 2) for being a source of tension between him and his Alliance friends. He feels responsible for his people and at the same time he hates beings responsible for them. I’ve never noticed this before until you mentioned it. I agree, he also seems to “eye roll” at the idea of Sylvanas being anything other than bad for the Horde. It’s amazing how much that cinematic foreshadows BFA so far.
I subscribe to the belief that Sylvanas knew that the only way to break the Night Elves and hold Darkshore and Teldrassil was to destroy their hope of winning. The Warbringer cinematic showed Sylvanas coming to the realization that merely “occupying” Teldrassil, due to what Delaryn says, would ultimately result in failure because the Night Elves would never stop trying to reclaim it. This has been misinterpreted as Sylvanas being petty, but it’s actually the exact opposite. it’s Sylvanas at her most ruthlessly pragmatic and calculating.
Baine allowed any member of the ship who fled to flee and only killed those who wished to fight to the end ethically speaking he gave them quarter when he didn’t have to. The ship is carrying a man raised from the dead to be brainwashed into a weapon to murder his family in their sleep I can’t even begin to dive into the problems with this. Inaction is in and of it self an action allowing derek to be used as a weapon in the way the forsaken were planning on it would have ensured the war between the horde and alliance never ended.
![:open_mouth:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/open_mouth.png?v=6" ":open_mouth:")
!!! Hilarious Where were these emotions when he was killing the Forsaken on that ship? Is it just me or is Baine just another one of the Horde characters this xpac that hides behind “muh honour” speeches to further plot now.