Why do you allow griefing?

[Herebefore-alterac-mountains]

Or better yet, go to org and ask for help. Or use general chat to ask for help.
Horde and allies are both frothing at the mouth to kill someone so far fromt heir factions safepoints.

[Herebefore-alterac-mountains]

The guards do scale. They spawn additional guards at the level of their target. Guards just aren’t that strong.

[Lenkah-silvermoon]

Walk over to a different area and quest for a while. There’s tons of quest areas for this exact reason.

I really don’t think that is the reason there are “tons of quest areas”. I believe the quest areas are there for content, not as an alternative place to quest because you are being griefed elsewhere.

[Rhielle-sentinels (Rhielle)]

The guards do scale. They spawn additional guards at the level of their target. Guards just aren’t that strong.

Ah. Then I’d go with my idea of quest givers not being targetable, personally.

It leaves everything else alone for people to kill or do whatever, but doesn’t completely disrupt the lowbies.

[Herebefore-alterac-mountains]

Any level 120 that’s wasting their time on some low level town is wasting time worth way more than the level 20s in the area. Queue up for a dungeon and wait for them to go away. Crying about it just makes you look bad, not them.

[Starlagosa-dentarg (Starlagosa)]

The players are targeted, even if indirectly. Since the Alliance can’t kill the players since they aren’t flagged, they keep them from questing. So the end result of them killing the quest npcs has a direct negative effect on the players.

Lenkah on normal servers I thought this type of behavior could be reported if they do it for a lengthy time.

[Cashcollecta-emerald-dream (Cashcollecta)]

No. Though on RP servers, it tends to be a lot more easy to report because someone can argue that the person was disrupting an rp event and rp events happen all over the place on rp servers.

[Rhielle-sentinels (Rhielle)]

Well its a pvp game.

It’s not a PvP game. It’s an RPG with a faction conflict storyline. Players killing players is not the basis of this game. But that’s a different argument for a different thread.

Any level 120 that’s wasting their time on some low level town is wasting time worth way more than the level 20s in the area.

It’s their time to waste if they wish. Not really my place to say what they like or dislike. I just figured a solution that helped the lowbies and let the others do what they want sounded like a good idea.

Crying about it just makes you look bad, not them.

… who was crying about it?

[Lenkah-silvermoon]

Lenkah on normal servers I thought this type of behavior could be reported if they do it for a lengthy time.

I couldn’t see them long enough to see their name, or click on them, before they stealthed again.

[Herebefore-alterac-mountains]

Really you don’t even know that they’re 120. You’re assuming that.

[Rhielle-sentinels (Rhielle)]

I don’t see how the level even matters.

[Yindar-andorhal (Yindar)]

Perhaps add something to the discussion, since there’s obviously things to discuss. And if you feel there isn’t anything for you, personally, to discuss, then…

sure.

my take on the discussion is that you’re discussing the wrong thing. blizzard doesn’t think this is a problem. so you should be trying to convince blizzard of WHY they shouldn’t be so easy to kill, not HOW to make them harder to kill. we don’t need to enumerate out well A. we could make them max level B. they could be invulnerable C. they could have a million hp etc etc. how to make stuff harder to kill is obvious. and quoting their own rules to convince them that something they don’t consider griefing is actually griefing is silly as well, though that wasn’t you, i actually think your take on the eula was completely correct.

why do you think blizzard likes having this in the game, and why do you think they’re wrong.

[Byucknah-agamaggan (Byucknah)]

@Vavezex-dalaran

And that is exactly what i have been talkin about… the guards are a perfect example… for the longest time they were pretty much the biggest threat in the entire game and for many expansions in stayed that way or close to it… then all of a sudden they became punching bags, i just figured it was like the rest of the game that has gonethat way and that blizz just forgot about it(which i find almost impossible to believe) or they just don’t care.

Yeah, guards have been in a pretty bad state for a long time honestly and I don’t know why Blizzard does not care. I use to get nightmares and practically walk on eggshells around the guards in Everlook, Booty Bay, and Gadgetzan. City Guards were also a massive threat back in the day and city raids took a massive force and a decent amount of co-ordination.

@Mourningg-terokkar

How did you get MVP?!?

Cool, so, ask for sources and you immediately go after the green title.

You want to know how I got this title? Because I am knowledgeable and know what I am talking about.

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Under “What does an MVP do?”

When you see an MVP post, listen to what they have to say—they were also chosen for their knowledge of the game.

It speaks greatly to my favor how, whenever I counter someone who can not back up their statement they immediately go for the MVP title and really show their true character. (True, you decided to find a “source” in a later post, but we will get to that in a second)

Dealt with this the other day when telling the people modding game files that its against ToS and watched as several went after my MVP title. Because, just like you, they have nothing to back up their claims.

The scenario mentioned above by the TC could fall under griefing. In fact, hilariously enough, your source even proves as much. To quote the Blue Post in question…

Griefing low lvl npcs CONSTANTLY

If an NPC can be attacked, Oiaa, a player is generally allowed to attack them. Our Support staff would only intervene in that rarest of situations. Sorry. I know it can be a bit frustrating, but please watch the language. I’ve edited it out this time around.

If an NPC can be attacked, Oiaa, a player is generally allowed to attack them. Our Support staff would only intervene in that rarest of situations. Sorry.

The situation stated above, again under the assumption that Warmode is not active, could indeed fall under specific situations. Its kinda funny because you did my work for me by finding a blue post on the matter.

Its entirely determinant on the situation, how long the players in question were doing this, and as well as multiple other variables. Its not as cut and dry, black and white, as you are trying to paint it.

But, again, thanks for humoring me.

@Mourningg-terokkar

to humor you

Also

@Mourningg-terokkar

The source is all the posts from Blues in the CSF from when I started posting there back in BC.

There are situations in which actions have been counted as briefing and have been. You are correct, the large majority of situations are not griefing and there is a plethora of situations where Blues state just that. However, there is also a number of situations, again backed by the blue post YOU provided, where that is the case.

@Mourningg-terokkar

Do you have a source to back up your wrong statement?

That’s not how the burden for proof works, slugger.

@Mourningg-terokkar

Also quote my whole statement before you call me wrong.

Which is hilarious considering that you sure as heck didn’t quote my full post when you made your first response. Really going after every tiny little nitpick you can, huh?

@Mourningg-terokkar

It takes way more then just killing NPCs to be considered griefing, and even then they use zone disruption and not griefing.

Again, you are really nitpicking here. Zone Disruption is Griefing, griefing is just a very generalized word used to cover a broad variety of situations.

I am not saying that TC’s post IS griefing, but neither you nor I have the tools to investigate and more often than not neither do the CS forums. Thats why I very clearly stated that TC needs to report the person in question so an actual GM can investigate.

You come after me with nitpicking, personally attacking my title, and even provide evidence that actually backs up my point that situations can be considered griefing and are evaluated on a situation by situation basis. Fact is that neither of use know the exact situation TC encountered and it very well could be zone disruption because we have no idea for how long that went on for no is there any way for either of use to know, and stating otherwise is ignorant and presumptuous.

[Lenkah-silvermoon]

Really you don’t even know that they’re 120. You’re assuming that.

Actually I do. Because when I said “where are the quest npcs?” the other players in the area said “a 120 alliance druid is killing them.”

[Vilrida-wyrmrest-accord]

The irony of things. A lot of people are happy for warmode because to seemingly avoid pvpers who they think are an inherently toxic and horrible group of people. Yet I am happy for wardmode to reduce my exposure to these types of people.

The odd truth is I generally roam about with WM on.

Less competition, less faction side trolling, and if the opposing faction gets too rowdy it usually evolves into a full on conflict and smack down.

Doesn’t always level out, but more often than not it does.

With WM off I come across a lot more jerks.

Admittedly, this is subject to perception.

[Byucknah-agamaggan (Byucknah)]

Really you don’t even know that they’re 120. You’re assuming that.

I mean… there are ways to tell. Health is a good way to tell, if they are around 100k+ then its a pretty safe bet they are 120 or close to 120.

[Rhielle-sentinels (Rhielle)]

sure.

Yay!

how to make stuff harder to kill is obvious.

It’s simply suggestions in a constructive conversation. That’s what people do when they try to have constructive feedback. I know it’s obvious that they can be made more difficult to kill. But there’s nothing wrong with discussing the options to point out reasons why they would or wouldn’t be good ones.

quoting their own rules to convince them that something they don’t consider griefing is actually griefing is silly as well, though that wasn’t you, i actually think your take on the eula was completely correct

Yup. That was just me trying to curb the bad direction the discussion had taken. Which obviously didn’t work. lol

why do you think blizzard likes having this in the game

Pretty sure it has nothing to do with like or dislike. They’ve already made some quest givers untargetable. It’s just not across the board, probably due to budget and time constraints as they make new content. They most likely just don’t see a reason to waste the time to change it. But that’s just a theory.

By bringing up these discussions to let them know it is disruptful to some people and that it does take away from some players’ experience, that gives them reason to think about doing something.

[Zulzamba-farstriders]

I’d suggest heading to Eastern Kingdoms or another zone, or log onto another toon, or go watch TV, or anything else, and let that person just kill the same quest givers until they get bored.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

Yes and on pve servers this was reportable as griefing and resulted in escalating actions. PVE servers had different rules. I imagine that applies here too.

You are absolutely wrong about that griefing thing, i can attest from personal experience.

[Irisse-maelstrom]

You get flagged when you attack opposite faction NPCs, so yes, Horde can attack him back.

That said, quest givers not in war mode should just turn it off like the players do.