Perhaps they could switch Frost Strike and Obliterate and make Obliterate the RP spender while FS would be the builder. They could make Obliterate do both physical and Frost damage, and simply have KM make it a guaranteed crit. It could cost a lot of RP, but also do ton of damage.
That way Frostscythe could replace Obliterate fully when talented and be used for cleave/AoE.
There are many ways they could fix the spec.
They could remove the secondary damage reduction on Howling Blast, make Frostscythe worth using again (but perhaps with a small 6 sec cd cd to avoid it being spammed again).
Death and Decay could have a 15 sec cd, last 15 sec, do frost damage, and increase magic damage taken by the targets by 5% (group utility). Obliterate could also cleave on 4 targets, only at 33% effectiveness, but doubled if used after using a Frostscythe.
Breath of Sindragosa could consume up to 99 RP, and last 1 sec per 3 RP consumed.
Those are just a few ideas. I’m sure that the devs could come up with many others ideas to rework the spec a bit.
Everything i listed was player suggested and supported by other players so its not disingenuous to say its the players fault for suggesting these things. Blizzard gave what the players asked for. If you ask for a bag full of rocks, and someone gives you a bag full of rocks and you start complaining about the bag of rocks… Well you asked for it.
I’m fairly certain that if you take ALL the suggested changes ever submitted on these forums, over the last decade, you will end up with thousand if not millions proposed changes.
The fact that the devs picked a few of those, and implemented them badly without really trying to make them fit with the rest of our toolkit, does not mean that all player input is bad.
If you want to build a wall, and ask for rocks, and what you get are some rough and uneven rocks, not properly cut to fit together, and no mortar or tools to fix it, then obviously you will have a bad time.
Also, none of the aforementioned changes are really horrible. Obliterate cleaving with Cleaving Strikes at 100% damage on 3 targets is probably too strong, and puts all our damage in a single ability, but that does not mean that the dev’s hands are tied either. They could have refined the damage on secondary targets a bit more.
Bringing back MotFW was not a horrible suggestion, but the implementation was bad. No way to target specifically 1h weapons, and the wasted talent point were really annoying design choices that could have been avoided.
Badly implementing suggestions does not mean that the ideas were horrible to begin with. They just needed to fine-tune things a bit.
Now however, the spec is mess of badly implemented changes stacked on top of each other. There is a lot to fix.
Many issues:
-Breath of Sindragosa:
Needs to be a static 15 +/- second cast. This saves it from being punished in raids like Aberrus and makes it so either 2h/dw weapons can be use.
Edit:
Also makes Obliteration+BoS build possible.
-Obliterate:
Too much of our throughput revolves around Obliterates and Obliteration.
I love when Obliterate hits hard. That is what we asked for. It was hitting like a wet noodle not too long ago. But, they went full monkey with it.
It should play like Mortal Strike. Yes, it can hit hard AF, but other abilities do meaningful damage as well. Obliterate does like 50% of our damage ROFL. MS is around 25%.
-Frost Strike:
This needs to hit harder. Flat Large Buff.
-Frostscythe:
Make it interact with Shattering Blade. Frost Strike detonates razor ice on all enemies with 5 stacks for X damage after being hit by Frostscythe.
-Cold Heart:
Chains of Ice portion needs to be removed. Should be a stand alone talent. This would be good for fights where there are a log of run out mechanics.
-Inexorable Assault:
Make it so Obliterate consumes all 5 stacks at once then one stack every 8 seconds. This helps with on demand damage and recovering from walk out mechanics.
I think the new 4 set is attempting to move some power out of Obliterates but it will not be enough.
These you? I can go through the forums and dig up the posts from other users that had similar feedback too if you’d like.
That’d be you. I don’t see why you’re complaining at all since you quite literally said “Frost is saved” and “the fight is over [for getting more changes]” after the 10.0.7 changes.
Warriors, Evokers, Ret, Unholy, Spriest x2, and now all of Mage. So yes, it’s pretty clear that Blizzard is heavily listening to player feedback this expansion, even if you don’t agree with the changes (that you yourself even asked for & praised).
Not a single person said anything about this.
The tree has always been pretty bad, even if this current one is objectively better than the first iteration. No one here is arguing that. But it’s objectively false and 100% dishonest to say Blizzard isn’t reading & implementing player feedback this expansion.
Frost players (including yourself) gave feedback on the forums. Blizzard has been very clearly implementing player feedback, and the forum is one of those avenues to do so.
So again yes, the Frost DKs who have been giving feedback on the forums are partially to blame for the current state of Frost, as is Blizzard for taking that feedback and implementing it how they chose to.
And again, since this is apparently difficult for you to grasp, that does not absolve Blizzard for the current state of Frost DK.
DK was in a terrible place for years now
if you checked his other post he’s complaining that the relocation of damage was not done after the crit nerf so obli as the main source of damage is now useless
They took the suggestion and implemented it. They didnt implement it badly, the suggestion was just bad. It means that thing didnt fit in the first place.
No one is saying this. We are saying that the people that are complaining are the people that backed these changes while also pushing for certain changes that were also implemented.
This isnt what happened though. At all. They got EXACTLY what they asked for. Its like asking for jagged rocks, getting jagged rocks and then complaining that it made the wall crappy.
Frostreaper was a suggestion, a backed suggestion, from the playerbase and the suggestion was “have KM make Obliterate frost damage so it scales with mastery”. What did Blizzard do? Exactly what was asked by the community.
Yes, most of them actually are. Chill Streak was designed for PvP, cleaving strikes was put in Frost because “unholy and blood has it” and its just a bad addition when we already had a cleave which is now dead in the water due to the Frostreaper + Cleaving Strikes combo. People still want cleaving strikes to do full damage to 5 targets because the cleave still isnt good enough.
Yes it was. They brought it back as suggested by the playerbase and if the implementation was bad then the suggestion was bad.
Thats not MotFW fault, thats the implementation of 2h fault and there is no way to separate the 2 with the current loot system. Frosts personal loot system is 2h and 1h weapons and to fix this the personal loot system would need to be changed in some way to actually fix this. It wasnt even exclusive to Frost but also to Fury.
Again thats not the issue, its the increased Obliterate damage thats the issue that limits the build diversity of the weapon making it good for only 1 thing and this was asked for by these very forums.
Yes, the ideas are horrible when the idea is put in the game as is and it makes the class worse.
Why do you keep saying the ideas were implemented badly when they were implemented as they were suggested? Frostreaper was implemented how it was suggested, cleaving strikes was implemented as suggested, chill streak was implemented as suggested, 2h was implemented as suggested, MotFW was implemented as suggested, Icecap and Obliteration being able to be picked up together was implemented as suggested and tuned for the new combo but it was still implemented as suggested by the playerbase.
So if there is a lot to fix you can blame the playerbase. Basically roll the spec back to Legion and start over.
I wasn’t there when these changes were implemented to the spec, but let’s say that you are right.
That every single problem with the current FDK implementation lies solely with the minor portion of the playerbase that is vocal about the game and complains on the forums. That the devs really did everything they could to help improve the playstyle, flow, balance and viability of the spec, but were thwarted in their goals by a playerbase that would not let them, instead asking for horrible ideas that the devs were forced against their will to implement.
Now that we can agree that the playerbase is entirely responsible of the current state of the spec, now what? We go back to Legion? Or are we allowed a reword to try to fix the issues that the spec had, even back then?
Kelliste is wrong.
Then dont assume they were implemented in a different way than what was suggested. I was there as was so many others that seen this whole thing play out since BFA.
They are a loud minor portion, that I suspect Blizzard just wanted to give them what they wanted so they would stop having a tantrum.
They werent trying to impreove the playstyle, flow or balance or anything else. They were just giving the kid an Oreo who is having a tantrum in the middle of the cookie isle at walmart. Thats all these changes actually did, and what happened? The tantrum stopped, but most of those people quit because what they suggested didnt actually play out the way they thought it would.
If things continue I feel another WoD Demo lock situation will happen, or we will just be back at where Frost was in WoD with the spec split in half there. Battling it out with Gladiator Stance warriors for the 4th from the bottom position.
You have to start at some sort of stable base. I said Legion because thats when things shifted a little bit to at least be familiar to what we have now. We can go back farther with different rune types, Pillar (Unbreakable Armor) was a Frost rune, Howling Blast having a CD and rune cost, Frost Strike being included with KM but the best bet would be to go back to something with a mix of Wrath and Cata and change the mastery to not be strength 2.0.
You also have to be able to diagnose the root cause of the issues. if you cant do that then you are just spinning your wheels wasting everyones time which is what the people in these forums have done.
Don’t worry, they aren’t.
Yeah the fight was over until other classes also got even stronger changes. Thats sort of the issue here every time FDK gets anything good, Warrior Ret or X class gets something twice as strong and good
Implementing a few specific points of feedback and ignoring all the other feedback is why the spec is still the way it is, They took a couple good steps forward but wont take the other steps necessary to keep the ball rolling, FDK defensively speaking is still gutted because Unholy pre season was pretty tanky and a lot of defensives got overnerfed all at the same time because of it. Talents like short AMS and its absorbtion effect got nerfed because of Spellwarden which doesnt exist anymore, Deathstrike got nerfed because of the interaction it had with unnerfed WOTN and Spellwarden, One of which is gone and the other of which is heavily nerfed
Its interesting though that you would cherry pick a few points of feedback i made months ago in a different season with a different state of PvP and try to use it as an argument as to why FDK is bad currently, As if you forgot that they nerfed the Crit modifier from 175% to 150%. Are you going to pretend like S1 FDK isnt stronger than current FDK?
Also worth noting that what you posted here isnt the entire list of all the feedback ive given, If you really want to deep dive into my previous posts im absolutely certain youll find plenty of posts of me talking about how our sustain DPS is absolute trash, How theres no meaningful choice on how to spend runic power because of how weak froststrike and deathstrike are, Youd find plenty of posts talking about how i dislike how powerful our talents are that affect rotational abilities other than obliterate and how i want damage to be shifted out of those talents into the core
Not all the feedback i suggested was implemented yet. And its not my fault blizzard doesnt implement more of it so its not really fair to cherry pick a few things and then blame me for the state of FDK
If i had complete and total control over this spec and could rule its balance with an iron fist all the compounding changes id implement from this point forward would look like this
PoF returned to its 15s duration
Icebreaker nerfed by 50% per point and Rime buffed by an Equal %
Uncapped howling blast damage up to 5 targets
All remorseless winter talents nerfed by 50% and all damage baked into the base ability
Gathering Storm changed to increase duration by 1s per rune and radius by 0.3 yards every 2 stacks up to 10
Shattering blade returned back to its original 60% value with froststrike being buffed another 40%
Might of the Frozen wastes removed and 2h/duel wield totally equalized so theres 0 difference between the 2 weapon types. All class mechanics related to weapon type changed to support that such as proc rate on KM, Double runeforging, etc.
Fallen crusader runeforged baked into all dk specs as a normal proc (to allow unholy to play rune of apoc or X runeforge, and to allow FDK to freely play razorice/X runeforge
Soulreaper changed to cost runic power instead of runes, And automatically detonate at 10% health regardless of the time remaining. Soulreaper also changed to always critically strike
Horn of Winter taken off the GCD
Glacial Advance baseline
Icecap changed to reduce PoF’s cooldown by 4s on froststrike critical strikes, and 2s on obliterate critical strikes
Frostwelps aid changed to increase mastery by 4% per stack, 5 stacks maximum
Enduring Strength base duration buffed by 2 seconds and per critical obliterate adds 2.5s duration
Coldheart changed to become its own button, Seperating it from chains of ice to become useable in PvP. Slightly unnerfed maybe by 15%ish
Inexorable Assault to increase froststrikes damage by 10% per obliterate up to 2 stacks, and to increase obliterates damage per froststrike by 10% up to 2 stacks
Rot and Wither replaced with Tundra Stalker
Bitterchill now is a haste steal, as opposed to a flat reduction. Now functions with Proliferating chill
Deathchill to no longer consume chains of ice when the root effect is applied
Shroud of Winter increases remorseless winters slow effect to 50% and increases its damage and radius by 30% and all targets affected by its slow can be cleaved with froststrikes
Deathstrike completely unnerfed in PvP
Bloodforged armor reworked to lower lichbornes cooldown by 1 minute, and add 15% universal damage reduction and 75% more Deathcoil self healing at the cost of its CC immunities (Will stack with Unholy endurance, And will still make you undead so you can still pre immune hex and polymorph, But cant break fears and charms)
Spellwarden changed to also make AMZ move with the deathknights current position and remove the ability to use it at range
Deathpacts healing absorption effect now directly scales depending on how much % health was received, So instead of 30% maximum health, it would be 30% of the total healing received when the ability was used
Chillstreaks cost changed from runes to runic power
BoS changed to a 1 minute cooldown with a higher runic power cost. Upscales per target affected so its bad in single target and light cleave and stronger in AoE
Cold blooded rage buffed to 100% on froststrike critical strikes
Obliteration becomes its own button again with a 1.5m cooldown and lowers the current cooldown of PoF by 25s when activated (essentially always allowing you to use PoF with obliteration incase icecap timing becomes awkward. The exact tuning would have to be determined through testing)
Empower rune weapon changed to a 1.5m cooldown (to always align with Obliteration)
After those changes are made, Numbers would be up in the air and tuning would have to be done. The basic idea is that Frost DK should play like a melee spec, And should be rewarded for staying in melee and fighting
Welp, glad i’m not THAT invested into the game. Just resubbed every other month for Trading Post objectives and nothing about Dks have changed.
I play Blood mostly among my Dks now. A Blood DK.
… and even then I don’t feel any motivation to climb keys or do anything. 
I mean if we wanna “Save Cleaving Strikes” And “Make Frostscythe good”
How about Cleaving strikes makes Obliterate hit 5 targets, but only 25% damage to secondary targets.
Frostscythe damage buffed 60-90% AND Frostscythe makes your next cleaving strikes Obliterate deal 100% damage to ALL targets. Thus to do BIG CLEAVING OBLITERATE you would want/have to frostscythe first to unlock that big damage.
We could also make it that Hitting X targets with remorseless winter lower the CD of DnD by X sec per target struck or something.
So RW would Feed keeping DnD up which allows cleaving strikes and to do the big damage with cleaving strikes we would be using frostscythe between obliterates to enable that max damage.
Oh my look at that I made an entire AoE rotation in less than 5 minutes… omg.
That isn’t 2hand frost’s fault it is cleaving strikes’s fault. Oblit can’t be responsible for AOE AND single target damage.
Or better yet just make frostscythe make next oblit cleave, cut out the middle man.
Wouldn’t that be so simple and easy…
Yeah Blizzard is never going to give us something THAT straightforward.
No Obliterate cleave. Just no, people need to stop with this nonsense idea because Warriors have Sweeping Strikes. People should just go play warrior if they want Sweeping Strikes.
It wouldnt even play well into the spec at all.
Outside of Obliteration windows you would have to just sit there and wait for a KM proc if this happened. You would want to KM with both Frostscythe and Obliterate because both of their baselines are low. Frostscythes is low because of the x4 crit modifier, Obliterates are low because of Frostreaper. What do you do in between so neither feel like garbage to press? Its just bad design.
No Obliterate cleave.