Who else is irritated thats in 2019 and we still dont have flying yet?

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

So how do you guys propose they add flying to the current zones, without undermining the warmode system (because of warmode, it no longer feels like a single player game to me. I help and interact with many of the players that I randomly encounter now, for the first time in a decade. It’s slowly repairing a portion of that ‘in-game community’ feeling, which was lost a very long time ago).

How do you propose they keep Warmode without undermining flying? That’s how much sense your question makes. I don’t enable Warmode anyway, so please give me my flight back.

[Elae-nagrand (Elae)]

At 4.5 months, Uldir will be one of the shortest raid tiers in WoW’s history.

The difference though is that in past expansions, there was usually something else, like in MOP you had Mogu’shan Vaults but also Heart of Fear etc.

[Oakenshroot-durotan]

Only time I ever saw an MMO developer completely turn their back on a major mechanic of their game to artificially inflate play time was NCSoft with Aion where you could fly in old zones but were grounded in the new content.

I am not sure why they do not just flat out remove it from the game if they hate it so much. Why do we even have mounts or flight masters. The logic they use to justify no flying is just childish.

They tried to remove it. Didn’t work, because people stopped giving money to Blizzard. The developers hate flying and they hate that their customers expect it, so they keep dragging it out more and more.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

Isn’t that kind of like saying “I’ve killed all the raid bosses already, why don’t I just get their loot handed to me at the beginning of each week from now on?”

No, it’s not. Killing raid bosses is a virtual job. Riding your pony through the countryside is a virtual commute. The two are not the same. If they were to add an Uber driver profession to WoW, then your argument might make sense. It’s world of Warcraft, not World of Equestrians.

[Khezik-kelthuzad]

From a pvp perspective, I love that we dont have flying…reduces immersion and PvP.
Flying is like anything else the game has now, quick ways of doing things so I rarely have to interact with anyone, just the opposite of what an MMO is.

[Glyndem-eonar]

Yeah it can be nice to view the world from above… but is it so good that it should be added (forced upon those who aren’t keen on it) when we’re only 20% into the xpac?

Nobody is forcing them to fly, they dont’ have to do it if they don’t want to. “I’m offended because I want to be.”

Secondly, no - it’s no where near like “I’ve killed the raid boss already, let me get free loot”. It’s more like, I’ve already done your content on the ground, now let me fly.

[Wárbeast-silvermoon]

How does it reduce immersion? Well, speak for yourself. And if you state that no one is chatting with or going to a group while flying, you need to prove that. Stating that factor A is eliminating B needs to have proof, otherwise it’s a projection.

[Gedpriest-queldorei]

flying increases my immersion and enjoyment of the world

major increase

[Toenail-whisperwind (Toenail)]

My trained Pterrodax isn’t going to be able to fly, so i don’t want it either.

[Kibblepaws-nesingwary]

That had far more to do with the way dungeons were redesigned after Wrath. They were tuned far more difficult than Wrath’s and were especially brutal to healers.

Most likely. Everyone was complaining about how WotLK was too easy towards the end. Those cata dungeons were challenging for the first few months, and I had a lot of fun tanking them. I haven’t tanked anything this xpac and I don’t see why I’d bother.

Flying was added in very early BC while subs were very clearly still on the rise.

I doubt much of the growth after that point was a direct result of the addition of flying, but we can’t know for sure. WotLK also had flying, plus an entire zone designed with flying in mind, and yet the sub count didn’t really do squat during those 2 years.

And no flying is limiting quite a few peoples fun whether you choose to believe it or not.

I do believe that, I never said nor implied otherwise. I have no problem with them adding flying, provided that it’s done so based on sound game design decisions, and not too early. If 65% of players wanted flying, then adding it 35% (8.4 months) into the xpac seems fair and is fine by me, just try to implement it in such a way that doesn’t wreck the game for a lot of people who are currently happy with it.

Pro flyers don’t want to take your fun of riding a ground mount around but you non flyers sure do like to take our idea of fun away.

being forced to stay on the ground is a large part of my enjoyment right now, so yeah, these pro-flyers want to make the game more fun for themselves and couldn’t give half a sh!t about the players currently enjoying the game in its current state.

If non-flyers wanted to take their fun away, they’d be requesting the removal of flying from all existing zones, with zero regard for how it might affect players who actively fly in those zones. A lot of the pro-flyers seem to be blissfully ignoring the bigger issues; I doubt many of them have actually worked in game development, and their only consideration is that “flying = fun for me” and therefore should be added asap.

It will get added eventually though, the badly designed Net-o-Matic was surely made for reasons other than griefing players questing in old zones.

How do you propose they keep Warmode without undermining flying? That’s how much sense your question makes. I don’t enable Warmode anyway, so please give me my flight back.

Replace “PvP” servers with “flying” ones. Bye.

But seriously, pathfinder existed loooong before war mode, and pathfinder is probably the cause of your troubles? Any sweeping changes made to the game after WoD have the potential to complicate the removal of the pathfinder system (war mode is one, wouldn’t surprise me if there’s others).

I’m not demanding they keep war mode, but I’d be sad to see it go. It’s a war-themed xpac, not a flying one. Feel free to make a thread requesting a flying-themed-xpac with cloud cities, where ground mounts aren’t really viable.

Killing raid bosses is a virtual job. Riding your pony through the countryside is a virtual commute.

It’s a job in war mode, if there’s hostile players between you and your destination. That’s ok though, I don’t do dungeons/raids anymore; they’re filled with obstacles and contain toxic people which reminds me of public transport. I’d really love to fly over all the trash and just land next to the bosses if possible, there’s no point in killing them as I don’t need experience, and the only reason they exist is to slow me down and add a bit more time onto the time /played metric.

Secondly, no - it’s no where near like “I’ve killed the raid boss already, let me get free loot”. It’s more like, I’ve already done your content on the ground, now let me fly.

Refer to above.

It’s world of Warcraft

I don’t enable Warmode

…

[Rawnblade-proudmoore (Rawnblade)]

I am not sure why they do not just flat out remove it from the game if they hate it so much.

Anyone else remember the forums that day? When they announced no flying on a DIFFERENT platform? Was it like Kotaku or something?

Man, I unsubbed and came to the forums just to watch the world burn.

[Raiyyn-lothar]

No, you don’t. You can’t. There are too many stupid bushes, rocks, tree roots, and random obstacles on the ground to learn all of them. More so than in previous games. It’s an exercise in frustration.

I understand that you seem to not like ground terrain. I just don’t agree with you. I don’t find the ground terrain to be all that difficult to navigate; I never have. I didn’t find it hard in Warlords or Legion either. To me (and yes, I do realize that this is my opinion and completely subjective), finding the pathways and entrances and ways to avoid things I don’t want to mess with is part of the overall exploration. I enjoy exploring the vast world the art team has created for us to discover on the ground and in the air.

You must not have taken advantage of last week World Quest rep bonus. I spent the better part of my three day weekend doing World Quests, and 75% of that time was spent disengaging from tree roots and mowing down trash mobs.

Indeed I did do a bunch of WQs while the bonus was up and for the weekly. The more I do these things, the less issue I have navigating the terrain of the zones because I see it more and learn what’s around me. It’s no different than driving; the first time or two you go somewhere you need directions and don’t know the twist, turns, curves, etc… The more you take the trip you find that you no longer need directions and you expect the turns and curves, etc. The terrain is absolutely “learnable” (not a word, I know).

After the rep grind, there’s no time for anything else. I never thought that my guild leader would ever quit the game, but he actually burned out and doesn’t play anymore because the rep grind burned him out.

I don’t get this, and probably never will. It is a choice to “grind” things out as fast as possible. It is not a requirement. What purpose does “grinding” all your play time away on things you don’t like serve? I don’t “grind”, which is probably why this argument makes little sense to me. I don’t see the point. I play. I do what I want. I get rep or gear or AP for playing. I don’t really care if Billysueraidleader wants me to hurry up and do that “kill the Horde” quest or the Warfront that’s up for that one more piece of gear or if Maryjomage is ahead of me or whatever.

I play this game for me, not for anyone else. I do not find that the game really has “grinds” that I don’t put on myself. “Burnout” is player driven, not game driven. If more people just played how they want rather than worrying about “beating the Jones’” I bet fewer would get burned out from doing things they don’t like.

[Raiyyn-lothar]

It’s world of Warcraft , not World of Equestrians.

But don’t you have to be somewhere where you may encounter foes (AI or Player) in order to be at War?

[Tinyblast-korialstrasz (Tinyblast)]

I do believe that, I never said nor implied otherwise. I have no problem with them adding flying, provided that it’s done so based on sound game design decisions, and not too early. If 65% of players wanted flying, then adding it 35% (8.4 months) into the xpac seems fair and is fine by me, just try to implement it in such a way that doesn’t wreck the game for a lot of people who are currently happy with it.

Yeah but the thing is its already wrecking it for a lot of people that enjoy flying, so I guess who cares about flyers then is what you are saying. It doesn’t seem fair to me or fine to delay it any longer. There is nothing out in the BFA world that hasn’t been done by most people already so there is nothing to wreck. It can’t be profs since they are about useless for making gold right now. Since tuesday when the new raids were released there hasn’t been any uptick in my gold making with alch and herb like most non-flyers say there would be. And as for pvp we know WM isn’t going to stay like this, there is no way Blizz lets the Horde stay this mad about the 400 gear so it will go back to dead just like before.

We have been without flying in BFA for five months so there is no reason to delay it any longer except for Blizz new metric time played.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

The more I do these things, the less issue I have navigating the terrain of the zones because I see it more and learn what’s around me.

I’m in my mid-fourties. I have one pair of glasses that lets me see far away things. I take my glasses off to see things up close (reading materials, for instance). When it comes to looking at a computer screen, I just have to accept that everything is going to be slightly blurry. Maybe if I was 20 years younger and could get one prescription that made my computer screen crystal clear, I might be more wowed by the ground terrain. As it is, it’s a major PITA. You can’t navigate around what you can’t see. Also, the computer I play on doesn’t support ultra high graphics settings, so that may be why I have trouble even navigating through town. One thing I will say, though, is that I have no problems riding around Ironforge or Stormwind. They actually have clear cut passageways and bridges. Borealus has stairs all over the place and food vendors in the middle of the street and a bunch of other junk that makes riding around it extremely annoying for someone like me.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

What purpose does “grinding” all your play time away on things you don’t like serve?

It raises the item level on your necklace. It allows you to unlock flying. It gives you extra loot bags. That’s the whole point. In the past, the rep grinds were mostly cosmetic and optional. This expansion, they’re mandatory. But that’s another topic.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

Yes. I believe those are called Warfronts. There are also raid instances. I don’t see your point. How will flying to those places diminish gameplay?

[Raiyyn-lothar]

Yes. I believe those are called War fronts. There are also raid instances. I don’t see your point. How will flying to those places diminish gameplay?

This expansion, in particular, focuses on the Alliance/Horde war. Fighting NPCs in a Warfront or bosses in a raid instance (or any instance, for that matter), doesn’t really constitute a war.

That’s part of the issue some have with Warfronts to begin with. They would be fantastic if they were PvP and there was a chance to lose. They are tolerable, at best, because of the gear reward (toys/pets/mounts in the “off week”) because they are fights against NPCs and there is no chance of losing the “war”. So much potential lost to poor implementation.

Also, that’s not what folks are talking about.

They are talking about random encounters with “enemies” in the actual world where the war would normally take place. Those types of encounters can’t happen if everyone is in the air miles above the “action” (causing there to be no action). For some, that diminishes game play.

Personally, I don’t care about PvP, instanced or world. I don’t PvP much and when I do it’s a random BG or the old “PvP WQ” areas in Legion for Honor to get the pet/mount/title rewards. But for a lot of players PvP is their main game-play. For them being grounded can be fairly important.

Blizz could “fix” the issue simply by having flight unavailable while WM is turned on, but they won’t. They could have done the same thing when PvP servers were separated and they didn’t.

But claiming that the "plight* (for lack of a better word popping in my head) of PvP players based on PvE largely not being effected by it is a bit disingenuous and short sided.

I, for the most part, agree with most of what you’re saying…from a PvE players perspective. But I can still see the other side. I think that is the basis for most forum “wars” (also for lack of a better word)… One side simply can’t, or won’t, see any validity in the other side.

[Raiyyn-lothar]

I’m in my mid-fourties. I have one pair of glasses that lets me see far away things. I take my glasses off to see things up close (reading materials, for instance). When it comes to looking at a computer screen, I just have to accept that everything is going to be slightly blurry.

I’m 49. I have a pair of glasses that let me see far away things and close up things (those pesky bi-focal thingamabobs!) and a pair of computer glasses that let me see in the middle. Plus I have a pair of prescription sun glasses for driving in the day that only let me see far away things…gotta be able to see those darn signs!

Also, the computer I play on doesn’t support ultra high graphics settings, so that may be why I have trouble even navigating through town.

Very well could be. One good thing about WoW is that it can mostly still be played on a toaster. Unfortunately those toasters just won’t last forever.

Borealus has stairs all over the place and food vendors in the middle of the street and a bunch of other junk that makes riding around it extremely annoying for someone like me.

I will totally give you that Boralus is horrid. I can see clearly and I run on ultra settings and I can’t find my way around that place. The rest of the world I have no issue with. But Boralus needs to go up in .

It raises the item level on your necklace. It allows you to unlock flying. It gives you extra loot bags. That’s the whole point. In the past, the rep grinds were mostly cosmetic and optional. This expansion, they’re mandatory. But that’s another topic.

I guess we just see this differently. I get your point, but I just don’t feel like it’s “mandatory”. At least it’s not unless you raid at the “world top 100” level, anyway.

I raid. And I do my best to keep my neck at a reasonably good level. But I’m not going to kill myself, or burn myself out on a game I genuinely love to play, because I might be a point or two behind. I will get there.

The only things rep vendors sell that could be considered “mandatory” are recipes. I have the one or two star ones, I will get the others when I get them. I’m okay with using a couple more mats than someone else. The difference in rank is just not high enough for me to care.

I just don’t find “grinding” until you can’t stand the game anymore to be of any benefit to anyone for any reason. Of course, that is totally my own personal (and totally garbage) opinion.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

This expansion, in particular, focuses on the Alliance/Horde war . Fighting NPCs in a Warfront or bosses in a raid instance (or any instance, for that matter), doesn’t really constitute a war .

They constitute battles, and a war is simply a set of battles. If you wanted to play a War game, then Warcraft is where you should be. Then you could focus on fighting a bunch of battles to win a war. But this is the World of Warcraft. In other words, it’s the world where the war takes place. I am completely puzzled by your assertion that fighting battles has nothing to do with war.