BGs killed wpvp back in vanilla not flying.
its pretty annoying seeing these anti-flyers spread that lie over and over.
4 Likes
I agree bgs and pvp rewards where the biggest nail in the coffin for world pvp. I do think flying did play a bit of a roll in finally killing it off.
I mean, we can have the debate, but it has very little to do with what the OP is asking for. Anyone who played through Classic’s first few phases will tell you that flying absolutely did not kill WPvP. What kicked it into high gear was the addition of honor rewards for PvP kills, and what killed it was the addition of BGs as a more efficient means of acquiring honor. Flight had absolutely nothing to do with it.
That doesn’t stop a bunch of whiners, however, from complaining that flight is getting in the way of their PvP fun. The voice of those whiners is apparently coming through loud and clear because Blizzard has eliminated flying from the game for huge periods of time. This is one such period. At this point, there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to fly already. Most of us have traversed all four of these zones backwards and forwards day in and day out. The lack of flight does nothing except to enhance the tedium of chores that are inherently tedious to begin with. The OP’s intent is to remove an excuse that acts as an impediment to quick flight.
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So the problem you want to fix is that there are too many players doing warmode?
OP is asking that flight be permanently removed from warmode and given freely in warmode off. You can’t ignore the effect this is going to have on warmode while you’re salivating over you getting flight asap. People actually do warmode. It’s a feature of the game, and the historical “bgs killed wpvp in vanilla” is irrelevant to how warmode is working right now.
That’s not it either. There wasn’t a switch that suddenly turned WPvP off. It happened over time as a result of the slow growing, but inevitable faction imbalance on PvP servers.
There was still a lot of WPvP in BC (especially around the world objectives and cramped places like Quel’danas) and even into Wrath. By the time Cata came around though many PvP servers were pretty lopsided in terms of population and it only got worse as time went on. When 80% of the server is the same faction, who are you going to fight? CRZ and War Mode were attempts to remedy the situation but we all know how that turned out.
You really think WPvP was the only reason flying was removed? You are sadly mistaken if you think that. WPvP was only one of many reasons, and it wasn’t even at the top of the list either. The number one reason that flying was because it is easier to design a world without it. Flying enables players to simply bypass large swaths of content, which is anything but a good thing for the longevity of the game. That pack of enemies in the middle of the only path to your quest objective that have a stealth detector means nothing when you can just fly over them and land safely on the other side. The tower full of enemies you must fight your way up to reach an objective at the top, trivial when you can simply fly to the top. Ground based obstacles are meaningless when flight is added to the equation, and areal obstacles are either ineffective or too effective, there is no inbetween.
I think the effect will be minimal because in my experience the primary reason that players do warmode is for the XP buffs, the bribe quests, and the extra abilities. Also, many of the players who do warmode don’t even want flight:
So this idea that flight destroys PvP is not some imaginary non-factor that the OP pulled out of thin air. Whether it’s true or not, some players fanatically believe this, and Blizzard has catered to them for years at our expense.
OK, but they already announced that the first patch would have flying even before SL released, so they had to design it in regardless. How is this the number one reason when they already undermined it prior to release?
What content? The leveling was over in a matter of hours or even days, if you took it slowly like I did. Most of my game time now is spent in Torghast or in raids. Having to trudge through a world teeming with trash mobs and snaky paths is absolutely miserable after spending hours grinding through trash mobs in Torghast.
And I’m really looking forward to that. Ground-based obstacles suck. One aspect of Classic that I absolutely love is the ability to set my character to auto-run, sit back, and take long sips of my drink while watching my character make his way across the map without any intervention whatsoever.
So you put a no-flying zone in the vicinity of the tower. Say it’s surrounded by strong winds or something. Why do you want to make the rest of the world miserable for the sake of one objective?
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I’m under no illusion that pvp was the only reason flying was removed. However, it was one of the largest arguments for its removal back in the day. Now that warmode is a thing they could nix flying for that mode which would solve that major argument. The rest of the arguments boiled down to adding tedium to the game to extend play time because Bliz has had trouble designing engaging open world content that actually makes us want to go out there. Which frankly if they could design it to actually make me want to be in the open world without flight I would be totally down for that. But all effort in that area so far have been pretty abysmal to be honest.
There’s literally no logical reason flying shouldn’t be available right at max level.
5 Likes
They gave an anouncement because they know players want flight… they already conceeded the argument that flight should be a thing back in WoD, but they did so under a compromise. We get flight, but it will NEVER be available at the launch of an expansion ever again, there will be a delay, and they are trying to find the point where that delay should end at to best suit both their side of things and ours. Do you know how compromises work? Neither side actually gets what they want.
That is your perspective. You are but a single player, not everyone spends all day in instanced content, there are many who actually enjoy the open world content. Just because you personally don’t see it as content, doesn’t mean it isn’t content. And i’m sorry that navigating around mobs in the open world is too harsh of a task for you to deal with, GET OVER IT!
Again… either ineffective or too effective. If they put a no fly zone around the tower, it will have to extend to the ceiling of the zone or people will fly over the tower and dismount mid flight with something to prevent damage like a parachute, glider, invuln, slow fall, ect… to yet again bypass the enemies. However, putting it all the way to the ceiling results in people being dismounted when simply flying through the area with no warning. Adding a dismount warning would mean the zone would have to be of a significant size or else people could take advantage of the dismount timer to get close enough to safely land on top of the tower still.
No matter what they do, people like you will NEVER think open world content is engaging enough unless they made open world a single-player/party experience, where you never see another player outside of your own party and all enemies are for you and your party only. And even if they made something you find engaging enough, you would STILL complain about the lack of flight at the start of the expansion.
Blizzard has made their stance clear, start of expansion no flight. Period. That will not ever change. There is no point trying to argue it any more. We got the compromise, and that is all we are ever going to get.
So in the absence of your self-proclaimed “number one” reason for removing flight, your new assertion is that they’re simply being spiteful. What is left to compromise on now that they are forced to design around flight regardless?
There is no such assertion, and the devs directly stated their reasoning behind removing flight back during WoD. The only one making assertions here is you. You believe it to be done out of spite, that is on you. They made a compromise to try and appease the community. If anything is done out of spite, it would be them deciding that flight will not be returned again ever as a result of continued harassment from players demanding it be returned immediately rather than waiting a short period as per the compromise.
Didn’t you guys already said wpvp has died ?? So whats the point of restricting flying? What a waste of space yall are .
2 Likes
Flying didn’t kill world pvp. Instanced Battlegrounds did. Which was why blizzard put in outdoor pvp events to encourage more world pvp.
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Just because a lot of people think something is true doesn’t mean it is true. I mean you just have to look at the whole “2020 was rigged” BS as an example.
Plus blizzard stated their reasons why they wanted flying removed. It was because they felt that people were taking the worlds they had created for granted and were too busy flying from objective to objective without “taking in” what they had made. It also made the world feel smaller since you could fly over mountains and other land barriers.
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Hit max level, and if the devs need to show off their skills, maybe do a zones 100% explored thing with no time gating. I’d have no issue with a “path finder” that has requirements on day one and no time-gating.
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is it odd that I HALFWAY agree with you?
I get what you’re saying, but you aren’t elaborating so no one GETS it. So to surmise in typical Juju fashion (hope this isn’t long winded):
So when you flag for warmode, you basically get put into your own little server/certain rules apply. Why not allow no flying when you flag for pvp/have warmode turned on?
For those of us that don’t do that content (pvp), it has absolutely no effect on my gameplay one way or another since I’m not seeing you guys out in the world anyways.
Now I do think the exception to this rule would be major capitol cities.
I do kind of agree that there still needs to be some sort of penalty (besides death) for doing world pvp (that doesn’t actually feel like a penalty).
It would encourage those people that actually enjoy leveling with warmode on to do so, and remind people that the entire point of the xp booster thing of the boosts actual purpose. Not as a leveling boost. Being flagged for pvp is supposed to be dangerous.
I know a lot of people enjoy being able to fly and quest through stuff they’ve already done a million times, but at the same time, those people who use the warmode boost just use it to level (not pvp).
Is this basically what you’re saying? Cause, for once, I can agree with your argument.
I believe this. They’re withholding flying because our having fun bruises their egos. We’ve had months to take in this garbage now. Give us back our flying already. The world feels small because it is. It’s small, tedious, and overpopulated. We get it already. They saw how much players hated the murloc camps in Classic Elwynn Forest and decided we needed much more of that. Fine. I wasn’t impressed. Let me fly already.