I know the classes have been rebuilt several times as I said in the OP. I have been playing since Vanilla. Judging from your response I must have hit a nerve.
Rebuilding a class from scratch does not excuse a lack of common sense. Or am I not allowed to use common sense because it is a game. I am not comparing a Mage to a Warrior. If Arms is going to do more DPS than fury then perhaps remove Titan grip and replace it with a single-minded fury so that at least it makes a bit of sense.
What annoys me is that your “common sense” is neither common nor sensical. What sort of design sense does it make to put a hard cap on Arms performance so that it’s artificially kept lower than Fury at all levels of gear and skill? And it’s not even like Arms is wildly out performing Fury at the moment. So I just don’t understand what ground you have for complaining.
I think you are confusing criticizing with complaining. The emphasis of this post less to do with me and more to do with the game design. Again no one is asking Blizzard to put a cap on Arms DPS. Good game design should follow good logic.
Based on the data metrics from wowmeta, if an Arms and Fury Warrior of equal skills run Nyalotha, the Arms Warrior will out DPS the Fury Warrior. That is just bad game design.
In regards to common sense, Even a child knows that 2 is more than 1.
And this is the faulty assumption that I take issue with. You’re making a lot of unproven leaps to claim this, as well as a lot of blanket statements about different gear sets and boss types and player skill tiers.
ETA: I believe the top end of Arms spiked in 8.3 when stacking ToMx3 and lots of +Haste Corruptions to get really absurd effects. This is kind of irrelevant to most players, where personal skill and Corruption RNG keep things far more even. Plus, you know, end of the expansion. There’s always a lot of degenerate high performance tricks at the end of the expansion.
At the least are you willing to admit that Arms and Fury DPS are comparable enough to where there are instances where Arms does more DPS than Fury… if so then that is bad game design or at least lazy. Good game design should look something like this:
Warrior with 1 big axe does 50 damage
Warrior with 2 big axes does 60 damage but takes more damage
Warrior with 1 small axe and a shild does 30 damage but takes 50% less damage from attack
Mage solo does 50 damage
A mage with a pet does 60 damage but uses more mana because of pet
Bad game design:
Warrior with 1 big axe does 50 damage
Warrior with 2 axes does 49 damage
Mage solo does 50 damage
Mage with a pet does 49 damage
I can’t stand people that want a game to be an actual realistic/RPG. By the way OP wants the game, warriors should be the worse of the worse as they rely only on their weapons and nothing else. So every caster/magic user should absolute leave us in the dust.
Go back to your DnD tabletop. I don’t ever want WoW to be like that.
There’s no rule that this is good game design.
If your argument is “But in real life!” you’re ignoring that wielding two weapons is clunky, awkward, and - unless you’re exceptionally skilled - going to significantly hamper you versus using one weapon.
That said, none of this matters. It’s a silly argument. Fury warrior is all about cleave, and whirling around, and building up procs of enrage - things you do that play heavily into the fantasy.
What matters is that they feel distinct, and that their rotations are similar to the fantasy. What about a warrior wielding two weapons, giving into their rage, and powering through their wounds through sheer bloodlust, doesn’t feel like a berserker to you? Just because their numbers are a little bit lower on a meter that doesn’t matter?
Hold your horses (or Hoof).
I was not aware that WoW is a game. Since it is a game lets throw all logic out the window. Let’s make level 1 characters strong enough to one-shot end game bosses.
The example I gave above is a simplified version that a 2nd grader can understand. Don’t take everything verbatim.
Again, what makes fury unique is it’s DPS. It makes no sense that a dual-wielding berserker gets out DPS’d by a Arms warrior
I mean, it absolutely can make since that one dude using focused and deliberate strikes with a two-handed weapon actually deals more damage than one dude swinging wildly with two weapons?
Regardless, what makes any spec unique from another is its playstyle, not its numbers.
You’re kicking up a storm and throwing a fit over an average of 3k dps difference.
This is simulationist nonsense with no place in a well balanced MMO. There’s a reason this was removed from the game and I have no desire to see it return.
Just want to add that, while Arms may be dominant specifically in Mythic raiding, Fury does far better in a M+ environment, and Fury Warriors actually outrepresent Arms warriors in Heroic Nya’lotha rankings.
Specs are, as always, contextual and situational, and, as always, the most high-end gameplay and performance must be separated from the average playerbase.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#partition=1&difficulty=4No, it is not balance, its bad game design. Plus you are confusing balance with being the same. That is what has changed with WoW over the years. The developers got lazy and made all the class mechanics the same. Since double XP started, I have leveled, 9 different classes, to level 120. They are all the same with different animation. Every class lacks thought. Same 4 buttons that build up to something that lets you use a more powerful move.
There might as well just be one class
I beg to differ if my choice to get a pet or wield a second weapon has no consequence, then it isn’t really a choice is it. Decisions should matter and in WoW it does not
Your link is based on results than weigh more on the skills of the player, my link is based more on the highest possible potential DPS you can expect based on your spec.
If you believe anything you typed there’s absolutely no way you played warrior since vanilla. Arms and fury go back and forth on which is stronger per patch let alone per expansion.
Also dual wielding means you can’t hit as hard with either object in your hand while holding one thing with two hands generators a lot more power which is simple physics.
You are funny… Arms and Fury neck in neck in Vanilla, don’t make me laugh. Arms was not even a viable PVE option in Vanilla…
Fury has always out DPS’ed Arms, with the exception of Legion towards the end. The issue with Fury early on was that it was gear depended and really hard to find 2 end game 1 handed weapons. While Arms was not too heavily dependent on gear, it only shined in PVP.
Holy crap dude, Fury out-dps’d Arms from mid-way through Uldir all the way up until corruption came out with 8.3. Meanwhile we still do more damage in certain styles of fights due to our limitless, on-demand AoE; generally still do more in M+; and where we do fall behind Arms, it’s not like we fall to the bottom of the ladder. Fury is an A-tier dps spec, has been all expac. This is a fact.
Arms finally gets an absurd injection of haste from corruption that allows its top end dps to outpace Fury, and you instantly turn into the same type of whiner that Arms has had here all expac, crying about Fury being #1 even though they’re the super-ninja Blademaster spec that HAS to be top dps because reasons. Give me a break. No spec is entitled to be #1 dps, either out of its class’s specs, or out of the entire spectrum of classes/specs. Middle-of-the-pack is not an insult - it is the GOAL of balancing. If you’re competitive and viable, you have nothing to complain about, and Fury is far more than that. Fury was the #2 dps spec last tier. We’re really good this tier. Yeah, if you have the right gear and corruptions, you can probably do better damage as Arms on ST and certain other encounters. So what? If that’s all that matters to you, go Arms. If you really just want to be Fury, guess what, you can! I play nothing but Fury and have no problem being one of the best dps wherever I go, be that M+ or Mythic Ny’alotha.
More utility for one. Piercing howl is a fury only ability that is invaluable for current M+ strategies as well as Carapace and Il’gynoth. Secondly, what do you mean take more damage? Arms has to go defensive stance to take less damage than us, a solid hit to their dps output. Meanwhile we have a constant 10% damage reduction through Warpaint, and arguably the best self-healing in the game. This is of considerable value in M+ as well as some of the most difficult fights in this tier of mythic raid.
This is how we know you’re just another vanilla warrior who has never been good. Even after 15 years.
This is how I know you are just another moron who does not pay attention.
Also with all the changes that has gone into the class, 15 years will not necessarily make you better. Legion Warrior is different from BFA Warrior which is different from Vanilla Warrior. You would know that if you were here to provide constructive criticism or give valuable opinions
i mean the OP clensed Devastation hour and but kept mastery proc. i mean if that dosnt scream no idea what hes talking about what does.
The goal is always the endgame. Anyways I did take a break most of last year, but Arms did more DPS at the end of Legion, and now at the end of BFA.
While you make a lot of good points I disagree with you on Warpaint. No one takes Warpaint… Most fights favor mobility and Bounding stride is normally preferred.
When you make assumptions you make an #$@&%*! out of yourself. Since you know all the details surrounding why I cleansed it you can make that assumption right? Plus you do know math right… one is 35 corruption and the other is 75.
While you were looking me up on Armory, did you notice that I was not in a guild. I am a solo player.
Anyways, I was running a 5 mask horrific vision and had to stay under 20 corruption. I cleansed it because I didn’t have a choice. but since I now run Heroic Nyalotha weekly it’s just a matter of time before I have enough corruption resistance to wield it
I don’t think you understand what this means.
I actually prefer bounding stride and generally take it, but this is factually incorrect. People taking BS over WP are in the minority, it’s very easy to check the logs on this. Literally every fight this tier is 70/30 or 60/40 in favor of WP.
No, it did not. Fury was the #3 dps spec in Antorus. Arms was, hang on I’m actually gonna have to physically count for this one…#18. Meanwhile right now Arms is #2 and Fury is #7. Oh god, life is hard being in the top third of dps specs.
Cleansing TDIII for a vision? Yikes. And it’s under 40 man, not 20.
Then why on Earth are you griping about Fury sliding backward a few dps slots while Arms moves forward a few and happens to pass it? It doesn’t matter to you in the slightest.