That hasn’t been the design philosophy for quite some time. There’s no hybrid tax, there’s no specs (deliberately) pigeon holed as only good in PvP, and the goal is to make every DPS spec viable in PvE content.
Obviously it’s not a goal they always hit universally, but the gap between the high performers and the lag behinds is generally small enough that unless you’re doing the really top end difficulty stuff you’ll get by. Now maybe you feel that dilutes essential spec identity to let just anyone go out and raid, but a lot more people are thrilled that they can raid as an Arms Warrior without being forced into Fury.
You don’t. Incoming damage penalties were removed coming into BFA, and fury can take less damage than arms at no cost due to war paint, while also having significant self-healing that arms lacks.
@Althiala, I get blizzards goal, but it still feels kind of silly. Imagine having a Toyota corolla that has a max speed of 60mph. I then add turbo boosters to the car so that it can go faster. There is a risk of adding turbo boosters to the car. It will go faster, but more prone to wear and tear. Won’t it be kind of nonsensical if after adding the boosters, a regular corolla still goes just as fast or faster?
Even in Legion Arms were neck in neck with Fury when it came to DPS
I think you are confused. I never said I was struggling. In fact, I never said anything about my dps. My data is based on ~https://www.wowmeta.com/bfa/dps-rankings. As stated in the OP I love fury warrior and duel wielding and won’t change it for anything, it just seems kind of lame that a duel wielding berserker does less damage than a single wielding warrior.
Your analogy is insufficient. The classes have been rebuilt from almost scratch, more than once, since Vanilla. The road between 15 years ago and now is long. If you hold up a picture of the two extremes against each other they’re almost nothing alike because of the cumulative changes.
You might as well ask how car drivers expect to get any real speed without a buggy whip to make the horses go faster. Horses aren’t part of the design equation anymore. If you can’t get on board with what the game has become, Classic is right over there and ready to welcome you. Otherwise, accept that the game has gone through multiple major revisions since then and let go of the past.
I know the classes have been rebuilt several times as I said in the OP. I have been playing since Vanilla. Judging from your response I must have hit a nerve.
Rebuilding a class from scratch does not excuse a lack of common sense. Or am I not allowed to use common sense because it is a game. I am not comparing a Mage to a Warrior. If Arms is going to do more DPS than fury then perhaps remove Titan grip and replace it with a single-minded fury so that at least it makes a bit of sense.
What annoys me is that your “common sense” is neither common nor sensical. What sort of design sense does it make to put a hard cap on Arms performance so that it’s artificially kept lower than Fury at all levels of gear and skill? And it’s not even like Arms is wildly out performing Fury at the moment. So I just don’t understand what ground you have for complaining.
I think you are confusing criticizing with complaining. The emphasis of this post less to do with me and more to do with the game design. Again no one is asking Blizzard to put a cap on Arms DPS. Good game design should follow good logic.
Based on the data metrics from wowmeta, if an Arms and Fury Warrior of equal skills run Nyalotha, the Arms Warrior will out DPS the Fury Warrior. That is just bad game design.
In regards to common sense, Even a child knows that 2 is more than 1.
And this is the faulty assumption that I take issue with. You’re making a lot of unproven leaps to claim this, as well as a lot of blanket statements about different gear sets and boss types and player skill tiers.
ETA: I believe the top end of Arms spiked in 8.3 when stacking ToMx3 and lots of +Haste Corruptions to get really absurd effects. This is kind of irrelevant to most players, where personal skill and Corruption RNG keep things far more even. Plus, you know, end of the expansion. There’s always a lot of degenerate high performance tricks at the end of the expansion.
At the least are you willing to admit that Arms and Fury DPS are comparable enough to where there are instances where Arms does more DPS than Fury… if so then that is bad game design or at least lazy. Good game design should look something like this:
Warrior with 1 big axe does 50 damage
Warrior with 2 big axes does 60 damage but takes more damage
Warrior with 1 small axe and a shild does 30 damage but takes 50% less damage from attack
Mage solo does 50 damage
A mage with a pet does 60 damage but uses more mana because of pet
Bad game design:
Warrior with 1 big axe does 50 damage
Warrior with 2 axes does 49 damage
Mage solo does 50 damage
Mage with a pet does 49 damage
I can’t stand people that want a game to be an actual realistic/RPG. By the way OP wants the game, warriors should be the worse of the worse as they rely only on their weapons and nothing else. So every caster/magic user should absolute leave us in the dust.
Go back to your DnD tabletop. I don’t ever want WoW to be like that.
If your argument is “But in real life!” you’re ignoring that wielding two weapons is clunky, awkward, and - unless you’re exceptionally skilled - going to significantly hamper you versus using one weapon.
That said, none of this matters. It’s a silly argument. Fury warrior is all about cleave, and whirling around, and building up procs of enrage - things you do that play heavily into the fantasy.
What matters is that they feel distinct, and that their rotations are similar to the fantasy. What about a warrior wielding two weapons, giving into their rage, and powering through their wounds through sheer bloodlust, doesn’t feel like a berserker to you? Just because their numbers are a little bit lower on a meter that doesn’t matter?
Hold your horses (or Hoof).
I was not aware that WoW is a game. Since it is a game lets throw all logic out the window. Let’s make level 1 characters strong enough to one-shot end game bosses.
The example I gave above is a simplified version that a 2nd grader can understand. Don’t take everything verbatim.
Again, what makes fury unique is it’s DPS. It makes no sense that a dual-wielding berserker gets out DPS’d by a Arms warrior
I mean, it absolutely can make since that one dude using focused and deliberate strikes with a two-handed weapon actually deals more damage than one dude swinging wildly with two weapons?
Regardless, what makes any spec unique from another is its playstyle, not its numbers.
You’re kicking up a storm and throwing a fit over an average of 3k dps difference.
This is simulationist nonsense with no place in a well balanced MMO. There’s a reason this was removed from the game and I have no desire to see it return.
Just want to add that, while Arms may be dominant specifically in Mythic raiding, Fury does far better in a M+ environment, and Fury Warriors actually outrepresent Arms warriors in Heroic Nya’lotha rankings.
Specs are, as always, contextual and situational, and, as always, the most high-end gameplay and performance must be separated from the average playerbase.
No, it is not balance, its bad game design. Plus you are confusing balance with being the same. That is what has changed with WoW over the years. The developers got lazy and made all the class mechanics the same. Since double XP started, I have leveled, 9 different classes, to level 120. They are all the same with different animation. Every class lacks thought. Same 4 buttons that build up to something that lets you use a more powerful move.
There might as well just be one class
I beg to differ if my choice to get a pet or wield a second weapon has no consequence, then it isn’t really a choice is it. Decisions should matter and in WoW it does not
Your link is based on results than weigh more on the skills of the player, my link is based more on the highest possible potential DPS you can expect based on your spec.
If you believe anything you typed there’s absolutely no way you played warrior since vanilla. Arms and fury go back and forth on which is stronger per patch let alone per expansion.
Also dual wielding means you can’t hit as hard with either object in your hand while holding one thing with two hands generators a lot more power which is simple physics.
You are funny… Arms and Fury neck in neck in Vanilla, don’t make me laugh. Arms was not even a viable PVE option in Vanilla…
Fury has always out DPS’ed Arms, with the exception of Legion towards the end. The issue with Fury early on was that it was gear depended and really hard to find 2 end game 1 handed weapons. While Arms was not too heavily dependent on gear, it only shined in PVP.