So much salt. Every time I log into my melee hunter I feed my pet with your tears.
6 Likes
SV is such a great spec, especially for BGs.
Hopefully they decided to make BM melee also.
I think that would be awesome!
5 Likes
You seem like someone who never grew up. Wish there was more players with the comprehrension to read, at least a few lines in a discussion, before jumping the gun and claiming something is just another bash on melee thread.
Let me restate once more, with the way raids and mythic dungeons have progressed in BfA it would be an asset to have another spec that could handle heavy multi add bosses, which I think old SV would be strongest at. Melee does not need to be removed only rang SV needs to be reintroduced some how.
9 Likes
So you are going take away from MM to bring back old Survival?
Why would you take anything away? Many have offered an options of bringing back range SV through talents.
SVs past core abilities were:
Explosive Shot
Black Arrow
Serpent Sting
Make Explosive Shot work as it used to. Make it replace Aimed Shot as a 2-charge ability(though with an instant cast time)
Make Black Arrow return and be a replacement for Rapid Fire. Same CD as it used to have. Each tick from the DoT applied should restore focus to you(in total, similar to what Rapid Fire gives you). And in addition, any target affected by Black Arrow also takes increased āElemental Damageā, which is essentially what SV used to be about in the past. Meaning, damage caused by Explosive Shot or Serpent Sting on that target is increased.
Serpent Sting could essentially stay as it is. However, I would argue that as a talent we should get the Serpent Spread effect back we had for example in Cata. Where Multi-Shot applied a version of the SS-dot to all targets hit.
Make a dual spec let it be about what old SV use to be a master of AoE-damage, or let it be about what MM was about hard hitting single target damage.
Its not one or the other its finding a equal ground that does not loose the idenity of each spec.
8 Likes
Ranged Survival to this day remains my favorite spec of all time in this game.
I wish they would just make it a 4th spec or something like there are with druids.
15 Likes
you mean like 3 talents that nobody uses anyway? lol
3 Likes
Pretty in order for Range Survival to be viable youāll need more than just 3 talents. Probably some core abilities.
1 Like
You will need some core abilities. Black arrow. Explosive shot, serpent sting, LnL. Serpent spread. Cobra shot. Arcane shot. Mastery increasing elemental dmg. We would need the rapid fire cooldown(buff attack speed not the channeled shot).
Can add in glaives I guess (though I do t want hunters to be a throwing spec, rogues can have that .)
And revernt the nerfs to serpent sting that broke the spec in the first place
2 Likes
Yes thus taking the trick shots away from MM which exactly why they saw the spec needed to differ.
The next option is to have melee SV be able to switch between melee or range.
Wildfire Bomb and Serpent Sting can stay as is. SV clould be like classic Hunters and equip both a melee and range weapon, or just auto changes based on talents chosen.
Bring back Snake Trap, and Explosive Trap. Then have its Mastery based on Elemental damage, so traps and stings feel more potent.
Remove Coordinated Assault, but have the pet add bleeds or haste buffs to keep it important to over all damage.
There must be ways that MM or SV can be restructured to bring back old Survival. The last option would be to creat a 4th spec; however, that would require to balance four dps specs, and revamp MM again.
Why would that take trick shots away from marks.
Answer
It wouldnāt have to.
2 Likes
Just need a 4the spec. Any changes to current spec iterations would just cause more trouble.
You basically just admitted they need to previously.
No. Iād rather have a fourth spec than see them break marksmen. Leave the current three iterations alone. Bring in a fourth spec for ranged survival. Call it ranger, and move on.
Trying to build survival inside of marks wouldnāt work at all.
I didnāt say to touch marks at all. I want the ranged survival back. I donāt want them to adjust marksmen to it.
The OG wants them to talent survival in marks. Iād rather just have a fourth spec
4 Likes
Creating a fourth spec would be the quicker solution, but it would just open a whole new can of worms.
There are two things players complain about as far as specs go: tuning, and gameplay. With four separate specs come more numbers to balance. We seen how poorly BM started off, which required Blizzard to come in and add buffs just to have them comparable with the other dps classes.
Then there is to bring back range SV means Blizzard would have tear out some of MM talents leaving holes that would need to be filled and requiring a revamp to MM own gameplay.
Lastly, Blizzard would need a reason to have a class that needs four dps specs. Druids only got the treatment due to Feral and Gaurdian being a dps and a tank spec smashed into one.
I give the option of just fitting old SV into MM or SV cause it would seem like a more logical way for Blizzard to bring it back.
Working it into marks would probably give us two broken specs at this point.
Iām still standing by the 4the spec for simplicity of the whole venture.
Plus the hunter community as a whole would freak over the mash up
4 Likes
But it wouldnāt. Firstly, there are like 2 talents that would need to go in MM: Explosive Shot and Lock and Load. Optionally thereās a 3rd: Serpent Sting, but emphasis on the āoptionalā because SV has Serpent Sting right now yet itās still an MM talent as well. And given that next to no one takes those talents anyway I think we will be fine.
As for MM gameplay: why would it need a revamp? Thereās absolutely no crossover with SV despite Arcane Shot, which could be left out of SV entirely if needed.
3 Likes
Then that will be another accuse by Ion or whom ever works on class design that they have already given Hunters an alternative to range SV, and simply there would not be enough abilities to bring back range without making sacrifices to melee and MM gameplay.
If there only two 2 talents that need to be removed from MM and Serpent Sting is also apart of melee SV then adding them back to melee SV would be the next best alternative over getting a 4th spec. Just have it be like classic Hunters and can switch between the two forms while in motion.
It seems players are really excited with classic returning, so maybe its time to bring that back to Hunters?
SV would then at least have Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, and Wildfire Bomb as active abilities with Lock and Load as a talent. I would assume Kill Command would have to go despite being ranged on account of being a ripoff of the BM ability (I actually predict that SV Kill Command will not survive into 9.0 regardless of what else is going to happen to the spec). Carve would be replaced with Multi-Shot with the Serpent Spread mechanic, and this is fine because MM already shares Multi-Shot with BM; it will end up doing a different thing for each spec so thereās nothing wrong with this. Black Arrow would return in some form.
So there you already have most of the building blocks of the spec and the overlap with MM only includes Multi-Shot. What needs to be settled is how would such a spec manage focus. Would it be active like MM or passive like BM? I would imagine it would be a mixture of the two. Serpent Sting ticks could generate focus (not well known but they actually did when SV was ranged, it just had an ICD of 3 seconds) which takes care of multidotting situations and SV could also share Steady Shot which really isnāt that bad. If thatās unacceptable you could have other ways of generating focus, e.g. Wildfire Bomb could do it, Lock and Load procs could contribute, or you could even make a brand new ability for Survival like an extra poison which is single-target only and ensures you have that ST focus baseline.
If Mages and Warlocks can have 3 ranged specs that donāt step on each-otherās toes, so can Hunters.
At the same time there are only 2 mechanics in SVās baseline toolkit that are strictly melee (Raptor Strike and Carve, not coincidentally the most aesthetically weak and generic parts of the toolkit) so it would make sense to do away with those while adding the old SV abilities.
I really canāt think of a much worse direction for Hunters. I would quit immediately if that happened. We left those mechanics behind for a good reason. While there are some people who legitimately feel classic was the better way of doing classes (which is pretty recent revisionism, by the way; I feel like we used to all agree that Vanilla class design was universally worse but now suddenly itās debatable) I would wager that a majority of people would prefer those mechanics stay in classic. It doesnāt look like the class design is a major reason people are excited over classic, anyway. Itās about nostalgia and reliving old memories. None of that justifies dragging those mechanics back from the dead into retail.
Also, itās not that classic Hunters could switch between the two. Thatās clever wording to make it sound like a strength. They were forced to. You couldnāt use your ranged abilities in melee range so you had to use your melee toolkit which was always weaker.
3 Likes