Bepples has already sated that it would be no different than what Blizzard has done to all the players, including himself, by removing a spec that so many have loved and played for years.
If Blizzard went though all the effort to revamp SV twice, I really doubt they would go back and change it back to fully range. What Blizzard has done is try to appease both crows by having range abilities, but keeping its core melee. If there are any more alterations to SV they may just tweak a few abilities or even have it so it can be more melee or range through talents.
The real reason is that you miss ranged surv. That crucible raid reason is just a means to an end. Not fooled, 5/10 thread.
But in all seriousness I wouldnât ask Blizz to balance yet another spec they already have 37 to manage and Iâm guessing dev resources arenât those of 2011.
Missing the old play-style and its use fullness go hand in hand. The crucible is just a strong show of when its form of gun n DoT play would have made it shine and stand out from the other two Hunter specs.
Also players have shown for months how unbalanced each spec is form the other, so to even expect them to balance any thing at this point would be a cold day in hell.
I am not saying Blizzard shouldnât do a better job at class balancing. However, like I mentioned in the past, wow community also needs to change their mentality for the better. Itâs a two way street.
Old range survival spec was the main reason I started to main hunter since mop. It was fun.
I donât want to deny people who enjoy melee survival. I myself find that melee survival is pretty fun. However, if someone ask me to choose between old range survival and new melee survival, I will choose old range survival spec.
Players are far too subborn, if they think there is a cheat they will take it, look at all the bans latley, and you can ask someone to change if they do not want to.
No one should be left without, that is what got us here, but there are still a larger group of range SV hunters, so thier voices are louder.
Iâve been off and on this game since UBRS was a 15 man raid. Iâve also played most classes including hunter and during the time in which Survival was the go to spec for some time.
I get that people miss it. As I do too.
But the fact that this hunter community in general is so toxic towards the group that enjoys the melee spec is insulting. But when called out itâs the âoh we just want old SVâ.
Opinions are everywhere and just like lots of players want the old SV, there are players that enjoy the new. It was mentioned a 4th spec and I agree thatâs an interesting idea and would fix the issue if done right. BUT please for those toxic few here that are so damn negative to people that enjoy the specâŚgo outside. This game had been changing since release. The âmore ranged SV fansâ excuse doesnât really work because complainers and whiners always flood to the forums. Itâs rare to see a âhi Iâm happyâ post.
Hereâs to hoping they can make MM fun to play or create a 4th spec.
The toxicty comes from having to watch others enjoy something that you use to love, but is no longer yours. Bepples and many others lost a spec that they played for years, and then had it lost without even a say so. Now they have to read post after post of how much players love the change or even say it was the best change for hunters. That anger festers and turns to hate, which then becomes toxic and they have no other way to get the anger out than to lash out at others. Its not a healthy way of expressing thier thoughts but that is the way they have chosen to express themselves.
So did Feral Druids. So did Demo Locks. So did Shadow Priests. So did Holy Paladins. Virtually every spec in the game has seen major changes to varying degrees. Itâs not just Survival, the -game- changes. That doesnât give you or anyone else the right to begrudge others for enjoying those changes.
There is enjoyment out there to be had. Give the new Survival a chance, find a new spec to play, or even end your subscription and find something else that you actually enjoy. But donât sit here lashing out at others as you wallow in your own self-pity. Itâs not a good look for anyone and it serves no purpose but to keep yourself deprived of enjoyment at the expense of others.
The issue with your statement is those spec are still mostly unchange, Feral and Pally still melee and Locks and SPriest are still range. Survival was completely gutted then replaced by a melee spec leaving many players with no were else to go. Every expansion you can count on Blizzard making so some changes to your spec, which you learn to adapt to by playing; however, how do you adapt to a spec that is no longer there? Many have picked up new SV and have found it to be a great addition to Hunters, but there are no many who are lost with nothing else to play, BM and MM are not even close to old range SV.
This puts these players on a downward spiral, simply the ship is sinking and the captain has determined to destroy it. However, if you are one of those who have
manage to turn things around after the shipâs been abandoned, some interesting things happen. Some people will be angry that you didnât let the ship go down. Theyâll hate that youâve acquired something from the ashes. Also, These toxic personalities only feel satisfied when others suffer. If you come back to life after being left for dead, they need a narrative to explain why they abandoned you that you were the bad guy. Itâs easy to hate the bad guy.
Hate is personal for the attacker, donât take it personally. They reject those who think or like something differently and the when someone attacks you, avoid getting into a useless battle.
No one wins the hatred war. Regardless if someone is passionate and committed to attacking you. Donât get caught into that tactic. You need two sides to start a war. If you enjoy melee SV then keep enjoying it, but haters love to be hated back âthey will soon find another enemy that likes to play their game.
I think youâre greatly understating the drastic changes these specs have undergone.
Feral was split into 2 separate specs, largely losing itâs hybrid identity.
Holy Paladin has been pushed to the front lines as a melee combatant trying to churn out as many Holy Shocks as possible for what amounts to be raid healing, itâs identity as a tank healer quickly fading to memory.
Demo Locks were stripped of their most notable cooldown, nerfed into oblivion, and literally told by the lead dev that the devs didnât want them playing Demo. They then had to witness that cooldown handed over to the newly created Demon Hunters as their own spec was completely overhauled.
The issue with your statement is that it is completely false. To start with, pretty much every spec in the game has been gutted and replaced with something else. Even MoP Survival was a far cry from the original inception of Survival Hunter. As I said before, the -game- changes. This idea that those who played ranged Survival are left with no where else to go is nothing more than a self-imposed deprivation of enjoying some part of all that this game offers.
The current incarnation of Survival has strong ties to its predecessors. A Murder of Crows and Wildfire Bomb are comparable to Black Arrow and Explosive Shot, while Raptor Strike pays homage to the original Survival. The spec does a fantastic job of melding the ideas of both versions is extremely versatile, with a LOT of room for adjusting how many abilities you want and how much you want to split your power between your melee attacks and your ranged arsenal.
In my humble opinion, to not give this incarnation of the spec an honest chance is a discredit to yourself as a Survival Hunter and a WoW player because it is one of the most well designed specs the game has seen.
Pallies werenât ever just âtank healersâ. But our beacon gave us that title. As well as infusion procs with divine light. Single target big heals, were kinda our thing. But thankfully we evolved outta that, right out of ICC actually, into raid healers.
We used to have to judgement and auto attack the boss too for Mana, so mostâŚog pallies are used to this playstyle. At least in some degree.
Iâm all for in game changes, however, they need to make sense and not break the game, or classes, that people enjoy
I actually play melee Survival, in my original post I said nothing about hating nor removing melee Survival only the old range style needed a come back. Why posting about liking one style means you hate the other is an automated notion. Both can exist at same time, just like cat and bear druids, which is a good example of how either Blizzard could create two identities into one spec, or split them into two separate ones. Also, if it was the most well spec designed then Blizzard would not have had to revamp it a second time, and many think this versions is not has fun as Legion, so opinion is simply bias. Then to think A Murder of Crows and Wildfire Bomb are comparable to Black Arrow and Explosive Shot is not even close, where is Wildfires proc and why would you take AoC over Bloodseeker? Think that you are so use to any post about range Survival being some kind of a attack on melee you can not look at the discussion and simply go into defensive mode. Melee SV is a call back to older Hunter abilities is fine as a spec, but with the way Blizzard has created add heavy m+ and raids, which call for spec that excel at multi DoTing a call for range SV to be brought back seems like a given.
âIn my humble opinion, to not give this incarnation of the spec an honest chance is a discredit to yourself as a Survival Hunter and a WoW player because it is one of the most well designed specs the game has seen.â yet you play a Pally and your opinion is just that and not shared by many as the % of players playing survival is next to last, thatâs stats you canât ignore.
I didnât say the Legion version was, I said the current version is. I enjoyed Legion Survival, but it had its issues. They went back to the drawing board after the initial change and I feel like they really honed in on what they were attempting to create.
The proc has been shifted to Kill Command, which can also be used from range. Other than that, how are they not? Youâre so focused on things not being
-exactly- the same that you arenât even able to recognize the similarities.
Because a particular fight may not afford you much time in melee range (think PVP), may have a frequent add that allows for frequent resets, or you simply wish to create a playstyle that more closely resembles the ranged Survival that youâre craving.
[quote=âOgdenir-alleria, post:75, topic:169896â]
Think that you are so use to any post about range Survival being some kind of a attack on melee
[/quote] First of all, most of them are. Most of the people who are content playing whatever they are playing are doing just that.
Second, I decided to engage with this conversation because you were quite literally trying to justify players who want ranged Survival back being blatantly toxic and lashing out at players who enjoy the change.
I enjoy the spec and I think many others would as well if they give it a chance. But more importantly, I wanted to bring two things into this conversation.
First, I want you and others to understand that while itâs fine to want ranged Survival back, being toxic toward those that enjoy current Survival is simply unacceptable. There is no argument you can make that will change that.
And second, I want these players to find something they enjoy, whether that be the new version of this spec, a different spec, a different game, or an entirely different hobby altogether. Thatâs it. Thereâs far too much enjoyment in life to be had to spend so much time being miserable and trying to force that misery on others for no other reason than an unwillingness to accept change and try something new.
I think you have missed read my conversation cause at no point have I said we need to remove melee SV, nor attacked anyone who plays it. Your grasping at straws and looking for anything to turn this into a us vs them discussion.
False equivalency. Those instances arenât remotely as extensive. Well, Demo might be, but itâs at least still a ranged DPS and frankly I think they handled that one badly too.
You are trying to normalise the Survival change. Thatâs not going to work because no spec has ever lost the ability to be a ranged DPS besides Survival, let alone the sheer difference between the WoD iteration and the Legion iteration.
You act like we havenât tried it already. I have seen Survival on test realms. And Iâve played melee specs before. I donât like them and I would never main them. Stop with this inane, patronising tone policing. You arenât going to stop us from posting. Ranged SV will always be an issue at the forefront of Hunter class design whether you like it or not. It shouldnât bother you too much because you clearly arenât even invested in Hunters enough to post from one.
I think youâre greatly understating the drastic changes to Survival in an attempt to construct a false equivalency and to normalise this sort of thing.
None of what you described comes close to what happened to Survival. Demo is the closest, and even that spec didnât suddenly lose the ability to be a ranged DPS. Oh, and that part about the devs not wanting people to play Demo in 6.2? Go look at what they did to Survival in the very same patch; it was worse.
False equivalency again. I want you to admit that Survival was changed far more drastically and suddenly than anything else because thatâs a hard fact.
Lol!? No, it doesnât.
Firstly, Murder of Crows is a talent. It has no interaction with anything else. Itâs a cool ability, but itâs not remotely the same thing as Black Arrow which was an essential part of ranged Survival, giving Lock and Load procs. Also, are you forgetting that ranged Survival also had Murder of Crows as a talent?
Secondly, Wildfire Bomb pales in comparison to Explosive Shot. Explosive Shot is used very frequently and was the signature ability of the spec. Wildfire Bomb has a relatively long cooldown and is nowhere near the means of most of Survivalâs damage today (that goes to one of the most bland and generic abilities of all time: Raptor Strike) and it has little interaction with anything else without key talents.
Yeah, they really honed in and created a spec with 3 separate competing identities in the baseline toolkit and a massive over-reliance on BMâs identity. Give me a break. Survival is still a mess today, and itâs no surprise that itâs still one of the gameâs least popular specs.
âThe proc has been shifted to Kill Commandâ i.e. Wildfire Bomb is not at all like Explosive Shot. Lock and Load was the bridge between Black Arrow and Explosive Shot, and it provided 2 free casts of the most powerful and aesthetically prominent ability in your toolkit. Hopefully you can see the difference between that and the self-reset mechanic of your focus generator (although I doubt it).
Itâs not that Ogdenir is focusing too much on differences, itâs that youâre drawing increasingly ridiculous and indefensible false equivalencies based on the most tenuous âsimilaritiesâ if they can be called that.
Boy do I have a whole collection of maximally toxic posts from melee Survival proponents.
Again with the tone policing. This is a discussion about taking specs away from people, which is what they did. Itâs not a nice or pleasant situation. The discussions are going to be heated and contentious. Thatâs a basic fact and a natural consequence of doing what they did to Survival.
No, you donât. You have contempt for people who want ranged Survival so you set out to tone-police them to oblivion in a weak attempt to get them to stop posting. Spare me the inane spin doctoring. The only thing your posts are achieving is making me have even more contempt for dismissive melee Survival proponents who are clearly coming from a class other than Hunters.