Correct, Hunters melee abilities were used for slowing the target enough inorder to grt back to range. However, what if they reworked range SV into melee SV that created a spec that had strong range abilities and strong melee abilities then you could play SV whatever way the player wanted? Have talents that can switch out abilities that change from melee to range.
That would be needlessly complicated and convoluted. I mean, functionally this is the same as BM and MM right now because they can both fight at full strength in melee range. Have ranged specs for ranged-preferring players and melee specs for melee-preferring players. Donāt try to make some Frankensteinās monster of a spec that pleases both; itās not needed and will probably end up pleasing neither. Also, letās not further overburden the talent system with superfluous crap.
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They should bring back a more robust pet system. I like having pets that did bleed damage, debuffed with increased magic dmg taken by the target, or decreased an enemyās offensive effectiveness. With how sterile and streamlined everything is, I doubt, but that aspect could greatly influence bringing back the hunter specs people liked. When you could swap your pet to fit your play style and it MATTERED, it was a good time.
The downside of this is people will begin to feel obligated to use specific pets rather than the one they want to use. This is already somewhat of a problem right now but was worse in MoP. Pet utility is always a balance between freedom of pet choice and impact of pet choice.
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Right. In that regard, I have been wondering what can be done to kind of revamp the pet system. For my goblin, his class fantasy seems to be to use Thok and Iron Juggernaut but I would really prefer Spirit Mend over Grievous wounds for most instances. Maybe they could somehow let you choose your pet abilities similarly to their proposed Mount Equipment?
*or simply make it so pets have their own talent system?
I still liked the shot weaving with cobra shot. Iām fine using steady or cobra so long as it hits hard enough to use and regens enough focus to cap in 3 casts at the most. With improved serpent sting regening small amount of focus youād only usually have to cast it twice to keep going in the rotation
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Out of 12 classes 10.7% of players are Hunters, and out of the three specs only 0.3% play SV hunter.
Even with these numbers Blizzard as not moved on their view of melee SV, even stating they knew before the remake melee SV would appeal to only a small, specialized section of the players, but reassured they were able to make it feel unique.
The likenesses of Ion to order a complete over haul of SV again to make it a full range spec again is slim. Game designers do not work on something unless it disrupts flow of the game.
I would think reworking Sv in to a version of Final Fantasy XIV Red Mage, dealing damage by linking range abilities the and following them up by jumping in with melee attacks. You use Serpent Sting and WildFire DoTs to build up focus, while Raptor/ Mongoose is use to spend focus. Pet can be use to apply bleeds or debuffs. Give it more trap options, Explosive, Snake,and Bear.
Give SV the hybrid treatment, let it play like the classic Ranger class.
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Why though. A lot of us want a full rnaged survival. The hybrid melee and ranged is what is screwing the spec over now. Go back to cata or mop design with survival.
Otherwise nothing will be fixed for the spec. Needs a fourth spec, or flat out remade into the old design and then tuned .
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See, I think thatās superlative. Only the highest levels of play (where your obligation to perform outweighs your personal preferences/play style) would people feel truly pigeonholed into picking a specific pet. If they brought back the pet (and class) buff/debuff system, then it feels REWARDING to be able to contribute a groupās missing buff simply by bringing a specific pet. In wrath, I loved having a wolf to compliment my āmaximum APā talent build, and would also enjoy bringing the magic damage debuff pet to buff my own(survival) damage as well as that of casters.
Iām behind this, if they structured the pet tree properly, they could give people options, while simultaneously gating any combinations that might be too OP in certain situations.
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Just proposing options. We have seen Blizzard take the direction of merging MM and SV because they saw the two spec just being mirrors of each other,and then forced this idea by having SV old abilities as talent options.
However, that was did not pacify the numbers of anger Hunters who wanted range SV back, and so Blizzard went back to melee SV and revamped it again with more range options, trying to create a hybrid of the old play-style with new melee one.
Just creating a 4th sec would be the best solution and there are other classes that could use a 4th option; however, every class that has played around with this has been reworked to remove that form cause Blizzard hates tuning or just say we did not want players to play that sec in that way.
The last solution of just reworking melee back to range would cause a larger division in the Hunter community and alienate players even further.
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The reason it didnāt pacify the huntera wanting ranged survival back is mm and survival didnāt play similarly. If anything survival played most like beast mastery(not to argue but I was active in all three specs before theā¦horror lol). BM was still cobra shot, serpent sting, focus fire and kill command. So it had some of the same moved. Ranged survival just played smoother.
Mm has just always played off of big dmg crit as often as possible, with not a lot of sustained outside of that.
What they wanted was to do was diversify the specs. And people were clamouring over the old melee moves survival had, soooo, boom.
They actually got rid of the smoothest spec hunters had and left the clunky specs that were left.
Now we have a smooth ish melee spec and two clunky ranged specs, with no dev feed back on what they intend to do about it.
That is why we miss ranged survival. It was a smoother hunter spec. The rotation worked well. Good sustained dmg single target or for AOE.
But to fix it, you need that fourth spec. Some people like high dmg spells and hitting like a truck inside their CD windows(mm) some people love their pets and balancing solely around micro managing them(BM) but not the players of ranged survival.
We did the dmg, worked with our pet but didnāt have to depend on the pet. Had a little bit of burst, but it was all about the rotation and getting your stats right.
So either a revision of the spec or a fourth spec, is what we need to fix it, for those players.
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I really donāt think it would, to be honest, because itās doubtful that thereās a significant amount of people who fit both these categories:
- People that prefer Survival specifically because itās melee
- People who play melee and cannot reconcile playing a ranged spec
While Survivalās reception is a lot better nowadays than in Legion (deservedly so because Legion SV was a trainwreck) most of the reasons people talk about are not tied to the spec being melee. A well-flowing rotation, a fast pace, high damage, utility, etc are all things that can and do exist for ranged specs, too. Some people really do hold melee to be the most important part, but in my experience this is a minority.
Secondly, and this is mostly hypothetical but I think itās based in common sense: ranged to melee is much more contentious than melee to ranged. Ultimately, ranged is more versatile than melee by default and the game needs various balancing factors to keep melee competitive. Thatās just a basic fact of it; you can attack from anywhere as ranged, you canāt as melee. Therefore, going from ranged to melee feels more like a downgrade while going from melee to ranged feels more like an upgrade. I understand there are personal preferences that may be strong enough to overcome that, but ultimately they would be more niche. We know for sure that ranged players mostly arenāt willing to switch to melee because most of the former Survival players of old are no longer playing it.
So youāre left with a situation where most Survival Hunters would be fine with playing a ranged Survival because their favourite things about Survival arenāt anchored to whether or not the spec is melee, and the people that play SV preferring melee may still play ranged Survival since the melee -> ranged barrier is weaker than the ranged -> melee barrier.
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Again you are basing your own options on to others. YOU would be fine with Blizzard taking away melee, YOU believe it would not effect anyone, and these options are based on YOUR biases of melee SV not involving anyone or anything else; only YOU.
Even if with only 2.9% playing SV that not any less than the number of Arms Warriors 3.1% or the amount of Sub 2.2%, so does this also give Blizzard the right to just delete any spec that has a low majority?
Try think about what it would feel like if you woke up tomorrow, and your favorite spec suddenly vanished, how would you feel? Wait a sec that did happen, and now you want other players to go through it all over again cause YOU believe no one would notice.
As of now Inkarran has the best option as no one looses, both melee keeps their spec and range get theirs back. I like a win win over a win loose.
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I appreciate the support on this subject,
Though as far as what you said here:
āTry think about what it would feel like if you woke up tomorrow, and your favorite spec suddenly vanished, how would you feel? Wait a sec that did happen, and now you want other players to go through it all over again cause YOU believe no one would notice.ā
Thats kinda this whole conversation. It did happen to us lol. I am glad to see people trying to prevent it happening again though.
With that said. A win win. Just bring it back as a ranger spec. Into beta test, as itās early mop or late cata version. Test it. Tune it, work the talent trees out. And give it back to us for the end of this xpac lol
i agree they need to chill with the melee on suv hunter.
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That was my point, the mentality that cause it happen to all of us so they should get the same, is just toxic and not fair. Adam Kugler should have played each spec and learn the game-play of each before taking a quick look at Survival and think āItās kind of like Marksman except more traps?ā. He would at lease then know it was about DoTs, elemental damage, and traps, and just polished it up some. We would not have had melee SV but you do not know what you are missing if it never happened.
@Kindwolf go crawl back under your rock, a obvious troll is obvious.
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Ranged SV was never good, it isnāt coming back. Stop complaining that āit isnāt fairā, it was a much needed blessing.
Adapt or go play another class.
Some people are obviously trolls and donāt deserve a response. Taking away ranged from the other hunter specs and melee is preferred, I mean itās even a sad troll.
But moving away fromā¦the wolfie ignorance there.
Iād really enjoy them bringing back, into the beta for tuning of course, the mop or cata version of the spec. And then Working in the talents. Itd be a welcome addition to most of the hunter community.
Wonder how many will play classic just to be able to play range SV again?
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This does not detract from his point in any way, at all. What he said still stands true. His point was, if SV is not popular now, it was less popular prior to the last three years. Heās not wrong.
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