Wait...they removed infinite torghast and locked it to 18 floors?

Yes, and I agree it’s certainly not great. ‘Roguelike’ and ‘limit’ are two words that really do not belong together.
The only way I could see this being remotely tolerable is if it grants a lot of powers at the start of a new run on another level. In that scenario, though, they would have to provide the same amount you already had, so they’d either have to keep track of that, or there would be a set amount of powers per floor, and that could be tallied at the start of a new run.
Regardless, it’s system overload and would be so much easier to just not boot people out until they fail.

Uhh…

No? The point of Rogue-likes is that each run is completely disposal. You play for 30 minutes, you toss it into the bin. I don’t know where people got this absurd idea that roguelikes are about spending three hours getting ten billion HP. That’s literally NOT what they’re about. That’s the opposite of what they’re about.

18 floors sounds “correct” to me. 3 distinct tiers of progression, 3 boss fights.

My armchair dev instincts are that a sliding window Is the right design choice here. It is a trade off, but it will be better in the long for replay-ability/progression than starting from level 1 every time even as our characters get stronger.

Honestly this is too structured compared to what they previewed at BlizzCon. I believe I read that anima powers are only gained on static broker floors now instead of also having a chance to spawn as powerups throughout regular floors. The RNG element was part of why it looked exciting; every run could be variable depending on how many anima powers one found and what powers were offered.

There’s already recent feedback in the Torghast thread that it seems incredibly boring as a result. That’s a sea-change from feedback earlier in alpha.

Not really against the checkpoints as they always made sense. But is there info we’re missing that there are 1-x anima powers people get to select when starting Twisted Corridors at higher levels? Otherwise, as I mentioned before, being limited to the same number in the same places every single run feels like it will kill the excitement after only a few runs.

Where did you read that?

You mean from Preach? He had this delusion in his mind that the content was going to reach Mage Tower levels of challenge, but that doesn’t make sense for procedural content. It was never that way except the earliest iterations where you could load into some of the very late floors straight away with low ilvl and encounter single non-elite mobs that could kill you. He just got this notion in his mind that somehow that level of “difficulty” was going to exist.

Honestly I can’t remember, might have been somewhere on the beta forums or reddit. The feedback thread for Torghast is what I was referring to about “boring” comments though: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-torghast-tower-of-the-damned/498548

I’m willing to wait until I can experience it which is why I’m dying for beta access but my level of skepticism remains for now.

Blizzard is good at selling hype like a politician selling world peace prior to election.

The gameplay trailer just says “the shadowlands are infinite”

Blizzard doesn’t say anything specific here: "
Highly replayable and inspired by roguelike games, heroes are invited to explore its ever-changing halls and chambers and do battle with the minions of the Jailer, "

WoWpedia states it’s infinite. Again basing it on the notion of rogue-like procedural dungeons with the potential to be infinite, but also become “redundant” or “oatmeal”

Infinite dungeon

The term “infinite dungeon” is used to describe Torghast, Tower of the Damned,[1] which is a dungeon that has no ending and is a new feature in Shadowlands gameplay trailer.

Paul Kubit says: “Rather than an infinite grind, Torghast offers Legendary materials on completion — seemingly capped every week, so hardcore players don’t burn themselves out” but the article at the bottom says something entirely contradictory: “an endless mode that shouldn’t devolve into a weekly chore for months on end.”

That’s a lot of data to track.

I had a feeling they were going to do something like this at any rate. it’s like a checkpoint system. It doesn’t bother me, but then again, I don’t like the idea of torghast being tied into anything important, because I’m not going to like torghast.

Would you prefer a bonus boost (modest collection of power drops) at the entrance of checkpoints to make high runs a little more spicy and varied right from the start?

The risk would seem to be that without any entry feeor timeout, It would encourage people to repeatedly quit/restart until they got a lucky combo.

Not entirely contradictory - they are trying to delink the quest for a quota of legendary materials from the endless rerunning for fun/collectables. It’s still a “chore” but a finite one.

(Unlike say endlessly grinding islands for azerite or Legion dungeons for AP)

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who pissed in your cheerios? go outside and get some air lol :champagne: :popcorn:

My favorite “dilemma” the community presents is that the community (rightfully) hates infinite grinding, but also a portion of the community also hates time-gating. This is part of the core problem with the WoW community - the WoW community isn’t one people, but several groups of people that Blizzard is trying to hold onto. It’s like you have two dogs each on a leash and they’re running in different directions, and when Blizzard goes with the dog tugging one way, the other dog starts yelping. And yes, the community are dogs in this scenario.

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Sorry, GD Chicken Little was running.

I noticed about a week ago Torghast runs stopping at 18. That was the thing I was most excited about, infinite torghast runs. Now I am not excited at all.

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How can you not see that is exactly what a boring literal treadmill that is to begin with? You have extremely low standards for content.

Well the early versions of it looked rather interesting. It was something different and I was hoping they would continue to improve it…instead we have this. I was wrong :frowning:

Yea the idea its self is flawed its like putting 10 dungeons together then swaping the line up.And the designed it purely for esports which im soo tired of them trying to shove that crap at us.

It feels like a bait and switch to me. :+1:

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They obviously found that what they built failed the “infinite” bar. So rather than giving us a broken system, they capped it. Not the worst decision.

And if he gets significant backlash on his hot takes he can say he got “threats” to drum up those sweet sweet drama clicks.

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