Yes there is, there is a big time difference, do I need to point it out to you?
Most of them, sure, but there’s a decent chunk of glad-r1 players who’ve played twinks. 
This is the correct approach imho.
Adjust Premade vs Premade matchmaking, along with Healer vs Healer #s to go with it in retail.
As written in Blue.
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Not a big fan of comparing geared 60s to lower lvl twinks.
The difference is that you will never lvl out of the bracket ( until a new xpacdrops) whereas a lvler is only spending around 1-2 hours in each bracket.
This makes it harder to gear and stay relevant while lvling then at max lvl which is full of catch up mechanics and no one is going to another lvl bracket.
So I dont really like the comparison of max lvl players to twinks when they are kinda different considering thats the current content and everyone is stuck there so they have a chance to gear up without that gear becoming weaker via lvling.
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well i spoke to soon without any experience in it. after playing im seeing that those that twink out face other twinks. so it really comes down to skill. and im in the middle of the pack at least as a dps. i switched to heals and im top healer in most of matches. so i guess my statement was uneducated. but im learning now. im back up doing 60 pvp rightnow learning my priest at max lvl and all the talents. disc priest became a lot of discier. more buttons. i literally have about 4 new big abilities added to my already bloated aresenal. i wuld imagine feral druids are up there too
I would say most players did not care about scaling as it did not effect them in the slightest, the big problem was gearing was tedious and outright trash on top of very poorly implemented scaling. I know I was pretty annoyed when I found out about a few things thanks to video’s but most of the friends I had who did casual PvP could not care less. I think people forget most PvPers just want to do random BG’s and not deal with all the annoying stuff forced on them. Most of the low/mid end arena players are just people trying to get gear for BG’s or PvE.
I would argue it’s also not twinking, in games twinking is when you gear like that on low level characters perfecting. With max levels we call it min maxing if it’s something special or just getting geared when the system is like WoD, BFA, SL, DF and others when you for the most part just need to get your PvP set and then maybe a OP trinket or legendary from PvE.
If you google the word it tells you that and in Souls and every other gaming community with gearing systems you can take advantage of that’s what it’s called and used to define.
Again it’s not something you can say for others, (talking about the feel of power progression in PvP. I think it’s known people hate how Blizzard added templates and scaling. Those same players loved it in other games like Lost Ark where they added it properly.), it’s a personal thing for you, the vast majority of people on these forums going by posts over the last few years, and elsewhere with WoW communities prefer the DF system without the power progression that ruins the PvP side of the game. We have seen that time and time again with many threads and people complaining. A little power progression is fine, and can be fun but it’s not the main focus unless you just use PvP to gear quickly for PvE, people like that don’t matter and Blizz clearly has not wanted that to be a thing as we have seen with their decisions these last few expansions.
Yes there where big, like real big problems with templates and scaling but the idea behind it was not bad, just how Blizz implemented it as we have seen with PvP in other games. All they had to do for PvP was give us a simple vendor gearing system like with DF and past expansions without annoying restrictions and long grinds so people could get into PvP quickly. They should have had crafted PvP sets like what we are getting with DF so alts and new players can jump right into BG’s at max level. Something like WoD where players with absolute trash item level get scaled up are also good for the game but is not needed with crafted sets.
Going on topic, I never said how I feel about twinking.
I enjoyed it in vanilla when I played, all I did back then was lvl 19, then later lvl 29 PvP. I was not a twink myself but was the best non twink player in the 19 bracket on my server at the time and was forced to contest them to help my team, alliance had two twinks (two NE rogues.), on the server that would join from time to time pretty rarely and Horde had a warrior that played every weekend the same time I could play and a Hunter that was not seen as often. It was fun playing around them even though they where annoying at times with how OP they where. I was a rogue and would hold off the enemy warrior alone most of the time with CC, fighting him then resetting then starting that over again. I would actively recruit mages I seen in SW to join up just to CC spam the guy so I could solo flag run as I was able to kill anyone else 1v1 or 1v2 because of the skill + rogue gap with only a couple of more skilled players who stopped by while leveling around the same strength. When there where only one or two around it was not the worst experience and could be fun, less so when it was a rogue or hunter.
In the modern game, they just ruin low level PvP when they join the leveling brackets. There are just too many of them and low level PvP has been broken for so long with classes that are not even twinked one shotting people, when they twink it just gets worse and killed off leveling through BG’s for me and many others. I know I leveled so many characters to max level with just PvP in the past before things got bad. I would level a character through PvP, delete them at max level and then start over.
It’s fine in their exp off bracket but it forces people out of PvP in the leveling BG’s. All I used to do in WoW till BFA was BG’s while leveling or at max level, in the current game low level PvP is just trash so I can’t do that and max level PvP is just no fun with the gear and other issues throughout BFA and SL.
I don’t hate the idea of twinking, it just becomes a huge problem when they are too powerful over normal players, and playing broken classes that really need to be nerfed in low level PvP. I think the bigger problem is just how low level PvP is set up and it’s bad in it’s current state.
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its fine. i expect most hunters to backpedal even if its on the forums.
Well said and unfortunately, it will never change. The XP Off exploit from dungeons is still working. It’s the nature of twinking to exploit to gain an advantage over others, I must say though not all players do that, there is enough to give them a bad reputation.
In ESO Online they call twinks “sweats” yes they have them there too. ESO Battlegrounds are fun IMO but spoiled by the “sweats” wrecking low-level players there too.
I’ve seen this debate many times on the forums people trying to justify twinking as the same as the end game. It’s not a new topic. It can’t be further from the end game if they tried.
Oh and I don’t have a challenge if twinks are in with their own kind exclusively in an XP Off environment. Twink away just leave the normal player to get on with learning their class and battleground maps etc under fairer conditions.
I had fun watching twinks from the F2P 20 Environment complaining when they got moved into the 20-29 XP off group. Complaining about getting wrecked in bgs and it was not fun lol.
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They would need to implement a PVP Exiles Reach for these players to find comfort.
Even then there will be players making fresh accounts to camp the zone.
A win/win would be to have players educated early in game in how to make use of the best options. Without this it will likely never happen. Eventually there comes a time where everyone will have to gear up or remain fodder, end game or not.
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Im actually dead serious. My statement applies to you as well.
Plenty of high rated players that twink, everyone’s circumstances are different people have to remember Family Work life balance commitments are paramount.
Me personally and I don’t mean to sound cocky but if I had the time reaching 2k rating Glad every season would be no problem.
I would twink now because I can’t keep up with constant grind at max level plus with a family working full-time overtime paying a mortgage etc I’m strapped for time, I’m lucky to play 20hours a fortnight these days, having a twink would suit me as I’m a casual gamer Blizz doesn’t care for casuals or twinks hence the constant chnage of heirloom upgrade XP in bgz etc I could go in and on about that but that’s another topic for a different discussion.
End of the day enjoying the game at any level with the best gear in slot is most important.
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That’s enough to push any PvP rating goal.
Yeah, I understand hopefully DF will be more forgiving gear-wise like they promised at 70. WOD style. Like I said twink away but keep them in their own groups and fight against each other. That would be fun you would think?
I even suggested rewards, mounts, and achievements for twinking back in the day, recognize it’s there. Just keep it away from the normal player base. I would make a twink to experience that fun if there was a real incentive.
However, a lot of twinks just want to massacre low-level noobs and want the sense of power that being over geared gives them.
The cries of derision when the 20 FTP Vets/FTP account holders were moved into XP Off 20-29 were really ironic now they were complaining that they were the lowbies and getting dominated. Welcome to the noob player’s world and feel the pain. I’m sure some of them thrived but the lesser-skilled twinks would not.
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I don’t have time for the grind the campaign for Shadowlands took me 2months another 2months later and I’m not even max renown on my main. That’s the hardest part for me, scrap that and I can deal with gear rating grinding.
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I usually PvP twink v twink arena bgz etc que times are way to long so not sure how much longer my sub with wow will be for.
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Last i checked you cant twink anymore. When you shut your xp off now you can sit in que for bg for hours literally. I qued my low lvl twink hunter several months back on a saturday morning and he sat in que for over 2 hours and didn’t get in. Idk why blizz hates twinks so badly wanting pvp to be “Fair” at low lvls but we can have lvl capped toons ilvl 200 in the same bg with gladiators that are 300 ilvl pvp. Seems like really dumb logic to me…
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Please look through the forums for the years of questions and answers on this subject
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Shadowlands levelling gear is ilvl 146 at lv59. The new BoE drops from the invasion are 176 at level 56 (for comparison, heirlooms at 128, thats basically 50ilvls in all pieces)… You can bet somebody gonna stockpile them to twink 56-59. Even if you do level, I managed to get 15k honor on my SP just from 56-60, it was pretty fun!
You cannot twink anymore. I first noticed this a few months ago when i stopped doing mythic plus competitively cause DF was just round the corner and im 300 ilvl when i went to my hunter who was a twink and qued for a bg on a saturday morning. I sat in que for over 2 hours. Furthermore i dont really understand why people cant twink to pvp if they so choose they pay the same $15 a month sub everyone else does so if they want to twink they can. They could always take their money elsewhere i guesss too. What i dont get is why is low lvl twinking such a bad thing but we can enter bgs at max lvl on a new 60 and be facing players literally 80+ ilvls ahead of us who will 1 shot a new lvl 60. Whats the diff? To be fair? Twinking isnt fair? Max toons 1 guy in a bg 220 item lvl vs another guy in same bg 300 ilvl cause thats fair right?
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Yummy <3 <3