First things first, 8.1 Spoiler Warning.
Second things first, this thread has already been posted in the Story Forum
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769587656?page=1
But the denizens of that forum have exhorted me to post it here, that the message which seemed to resonate with some of them is repeated here.
Hi there.
Fully knowing the dangers of posting an opinion in a public forum (ignominy, scorn, trolls, etc), I still do this in hopes it can reach its intended recipients. I hope the readers can understand this intends to share my feelings and experiences, instead of minimizing your enjoyment or concerns on the game's story.
If you happen to agree with any of my points, I do like the idea of more voices adding their similar experiences that the Devs can attribute more weight to them. I sadly won't be able to keep a lot of track on it.
Now then...
To the Warcraft Storywriters
I am writing to connect with you as a long time player, and fan. I admit, I have always identified with Night Elves above all others, ever eager to learn more about their lore and see them represented in game. In the past expansions, however, Iâve begun to feel like I'm being punished for that love.
It was in Dolanaar, during that quest with the Satyr who tricked you, where I remember feeling like the cleverest person in the world for comboing Gouge and Backstab during a tough spot. Falling from the giant tree, Aldrassil, was my first experience dying in the game. I felt so privy to the world when I discovered the secret romance of the Rogue Trainer in Dolanaar to the one under the boughs of the Darnassusâ Cenarion Enclave. I spent so much time learning to use about Thottbot just to complete the quests of Gwyneth ByâLeggonde to find those washed up monsters on Darkshore. And who can forget that damned gnomeâs quest to get smashed? Or that jumpscare moment when you were roaming Ashenvale and had your first meeting with the enormous wolves and bucks that roamed the northern border of Felwood? Through all of those quests and so many others, I fell completely in love with the Night Elves: they introduced me to the World of Warcraft.
Then, the story destroyed all that connection in a manner as ignominious as possible. Killing all the above NPCs and places in a manner as contemptible as it's been handled is not empowering, or rallying at all.
My concern with the current state of the game is the ignominious sacrifice of characters and stories in the service of a defunct plot. And it's not the first time. For Night Elves, Deathwingâs passing through Darkshore causes havoc and tragedy (compare the tragic questlines on Darkshore to...claw marks on Stormwind). But it serves no purpose other than to say how sad and beaten Night Elves are and then they do nothing about it. I can understand the use of tragedy as a rallying point â but not when it leads to nothing. This repeats itself later, only a few steps away from Darkshore. All through Ashenvale, Hellscreamâs rampage destroys a people whoâve fought for that forest for so long, and none of the questlines gave any sense of closure. There was no feeling of having earned them any sort of reprieve. And at the very end, Tyrandeâs appearance in the Siege of Orgrimmar raid felt brief and unfulfilling, and paled in comparison to what was lost. At the end, it felt like the Night Elves had no part whatsoever in bringing them down.
It was at that point that the writing for Night Elves began to feel not as a series of blunders or part of the inherent difficulties of in-game writing, or wording mistakes, but as active malice.
Outside of the game, it was even worse: âThe Shatteringâ had one of the coolest Classic late game NPCs slaughtered ignominiously: the druid who summoned the Ancient in Alterac Valley (She later returned as another monster to kill in Legion). In âWolfheartâ, the Night Elves are out-ambushed by orcs. At night. In Ashenvale. "Silly" is just the kindest description of it. In âTides of Warâ, Pained becomes nothing but sentimental fodder to be killed for Jainaâs grief. In "Before the Storm", there is a brief, cool moment where a lovely gnome character seems to have a crush on a Night Elven captain and...the elf dies paragraphs after that. A night elf poking their head in a Warcraft written story is like poking into a guillotineâs lunette, the writers stepping into the role of the uncaring tricoteuses peddling hasty product nearby.
Iâm not calling for revenge. Itâs not about retribution. Itâs not about making The Horde pay or suffer; I actually despise the idea of enjoyment in this story being based on a zero sum Schadenfreude game. Itâs about vindication. Itâs about validation. Itâs about what the Night Elves are and fought for; every life in Darkshore, every death in Ashenvale, their values and what they stand for, to be shown having some worth to the story. Something where their way of life is shown to be good for something more than just fodder for The Horde, or new models to be corrupted/burned/in need of rescue, as was Hyjal, Val'sharah, The Wardens in Aszuna, and Vordrassil in Grizzly Hills (which are all storylines about how the Night Elves can't defend squat unless big heroes come and help them. It's not uplifting for any Night Elf fan to see them fail ubiquitously).
Now we have the new Battle for Azeroth Cinematics, quests, stories, the Warbringers, and 8.1, and as ever, the Night Elves are just shown crying, burning, trying and failing, losing everything shown before for no reason whatsoever other than to serve as a module for the story of others. For example: Delaryn, and Sira all serve as an extension of Sylvanas' story building her paralel to Arthas. But for the Night Elf story, they're just hope, killed, raised and used to mock them. They're just monsters that reflect Sylvanas.
Being empowered by a deity, and earning the power to bring ancient lands to...a standstill that logistically cannot have any victor does not feel like an empowering victory in any shape whatsoever.
Everything there is about them is systematically stripped, literally burned, ignored, and it's nothing a new eye color model update makes one feel rallied for. The savage and sometimes melancholic Night Elves one quested with so long ago feel like punishments for having ever empathized with their stories and values. The people who had the âIcon of Wisdomâ as a symbol of what they strived for; those who learned to treasure wisdom from the follies of the past and thus strove for a better future in fixing their mistakes and working with nature become proxies for someone else to shine.
As it stands, I'm dejected, dissapointed, even angry and sad. It's not just because of a recent thing, it's a pattern. The promises for fulfillment in the past have been hard at work earning mistrust. It was claimed last expansion was a love letter to the players, but to Night Elves, it feels like a creepy love letter Charles Manson would write its victims. And the future writing just feels like a looming threat. When it comes to Night Elves, Blizzard's writing turns into a Grand Guignol play written by a vindictive, drunken ex.
I don't demand anything out of this. I just want to expose the feelings WoW's story once brought for me. I am sure anyone who's read this far can remember their first levels in their game, their first NPCs and quests and how and when they learned the tricks of the trade of their class. But only for one race in the game, have those memories been replaced with slaughter for the purpose of mockery, contempt and 'empowerments' made fruitless by logistical stalemates for the sake of a story that, going by precedent, your people will never have a place in.
Thank you for your time.
Great post, completely agree.
Night Elves are their favorite punching bags while Forsaken are their pet race.
Great post.
Great post.
After all these years it's pretty obvious Blizzard is filled Horde biased devs who can't stop thinking about their precious Horde characters. They got to throw everything Night Elves are under the bus to make them feel better.
Everything that meant to be a Night Elf was twisted, turned neutral, butchered, ridiculed, etc, until there is literally nothing left but this meaningless race reduced to Anduin's sidekicks, made specifically to die even more for the sake of the plot. And they were brought near extinction just to please these damn devs egos.
This 8.1 crap... just wow. Nathanos, just some dumb undead archer, stopping a Tyrande that was supposed to have become the embodiment of Elune's wrath, with Malfurion helping, but they couldn't kill him. That was impressive, even by the incompetence standards we're used to. The content is as good as that "Night Elf gear" developed for the Warfronts. And by that I mean they're both trash.
These Hordie developers are hopeless. They're in charge, so whatever petty crap comes to mind, they'll do it and the players have to just deal with the bias or quit. I, for one, am going for "not spending another penny on this game ever again".
There's not much to say about this that I haven't said in my previous threads over and over again. If you're interested, here are they:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20759607474?page=1
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769626776?page=1
Everything that meant to be a Night Elf was twisted, turned neutral, butchered, ridiculed, etc, until there is literally nothing left but this meaningless race reduced to Anduin's sidekicks, made specifically to die even more for the sake of the plot. And they were brought near extinction just to please these damn devs egos.
This 8.1 crap... just wow. Nathanos, just some dumb undead archer, stopping a Tyrande that was supposed to have become the embodiment of Elune's wrath, with Malfurion helping, but they couldn't kill him. That was impressive, even by the incompetence standards we're used to. The content is as good as that "Night Elf gear" developed for the Warfronts. And by that I mean they're both trash.
These Hordie developers are hopeless. They're in charge, so whatever petty crap comes to mind, they'll do it and the players have to just deal with the bias or quit. I, for one, am going for "not spending another penny on this game ever again".
There's not much to say about this that I haven't said in my previous threads over and over again. If you're interested, here are they:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20759607474?page=1
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769626776?page=1
10/19/2018 12:01 PMPosted by NightwĂndNight Elves are their favorite punching bags while Forsaken are their pet race.
Great post.
At least you won't lose your Queen in the end of this.
Or maybe....
Dont put any faith in the story going forward. It's been pretty much pooped upon.
10/19/2018 12:04 PMPosted by Azurerogue10/19/2018 12:01 PMPosted by NightwĂndNight Elves are their favorite punching bags while Forsaken are their pet race.
Great post.
At least you won't lose your Queen in the end of this.
Or maybe....
I'm pretty sure it's far more likely, considering what we heard, that Sylvanas will manage to get away with everything and, Idk, maybe even be portrayed as some sort of hero.
Devs seem pretty into the idea of making sure Sylvanas does not end up like Garrosh, so expect even more twisting and bad writting for the sake of making the Forsaken and Sylvanas look better.
Hey everyone, thanks for the kind words here. My time on the forums is sadly quite limited, but nonetheless I will strive to get this message across as much as I can while possible for me.
In either case, I just think there's a very important thing I need to stress about my post: it does not intend to start comparisons between Night Elf stories and other races' stories for the purpose of determining "who's had it worse". I think that line of thinking does not lead anywhere. As I say, I know other races have their issues, but my post is trying to focus on one.
Comparisons are inevitable, and important for my point, yes. But I avoided them specifically to focus on the feel of the story for Night Elves, so that that can be the main focus the Devs can see, and have. And because personally, I despise the thought that a story's enjoyment be based on a kindergarten level of "neener neener, my daddy can beat YOUR daddy", and the comparisons without a specific purpose devolve into that.
In either case, I just think there's a very important thing I need to stress about my post: it does not intend to start comparisons between Night Elf stories and other races' stories for the purpose of determining "who's had it worse". I think that line of thinking does not lead anywhere. As I say, I know other races have their issues, but my post is trying to focus on one.
Comparisons are inevitable, and important for my point, yes. But I avoided them specifically to focus on the feel of the story for Night Elves, so that that can be the main focus the Devs can see, and have. And because personally, I despise the thought that a story's enjoyment be based on a kindergarten level of "neener neener, my daddy can beat YOUR daddy", and the comparisons without a specific purpose devolve into that.
They seem to be trying to destroy all of the meaning thing's that bind's us to this game, it seems to me that only dwarves have not been !@#$ed up. all other races/leaders have been.
10/19/2018 11:50 AMPosted by IlthenFirst things first, 8.1 Spoiler Warning.
Second things first, this thread has already been posted in the Story Forum
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769587656?page=1
But the denizens of that forum have exhorted me to post it here, that the message which seemed to resonate with some of them is repeated here.
Hi there.
Fully knowing the dangers of posting an opinion in a public forum (ignominy, scorn, trolls, etc), I still do this in hopes it can reach its intended recipients. I hope the readers can understand this intends to share my feelings and experiences, instead of minimizing your enjoyment or concerns on the game's story.
If you happen to agree with any of my points, I do like the idea of more voices adding their similar experiences that the Devs can attribute more weight to them. I sadly won't be able to keep a lot of track on it.
Now then...
To the Warcraft Storywriters
I am writing to connect with you as a long time player, and fan. I admit, I have always identified with Night Elves above all others, ever eager to learn more about their lore and see them represented in game. In the past expansions, however, Iâve begun to feel like I'm being punished for that love.
It was in Dolanaar, during that quest with the Satyr who tricked you, where I remember feeling like the cleverest person in the world for comboing Gouge and Backstab during a tough spot. Falling from the giant tree, Aldrassil, was my first experience dying in the game. I felt so privy to the world when I discovered the secret romance of the Rogue Trainer in Dolanaar to the one under the boughs of the Darnassusâ Cenarion Enclave. I spent so much time learning to use about Thottbot just to complete the quests of Gwyneth ByâLeggonde to find those washed up monsters on Darkshore. And who can forget that damned gnomeâs quest to get smashed? Or that jumpscare moment when you were roaming Ashenvale and had your first meeting with the enormous wolves and bucks that roamed the northern border of Felwood? Through all of those quests and so many others, I fell completely in love with the Night Elves: they introduced me to the World of Warcraft.
Then, the story destroyed all that connection in a manner as ignominious as possible. Killing all the above NPCs and places in a manner as contemptible as it's been handled is not empowering, or rallying at all.
My concern with the current state of the game is the ignominious sacrifice of characters and stories in the service of a defunct plot. And it's not the first time. For Night Elves, Deathwingâs passing through Darkshore causes havoc and tragedy (compare the tragic questlines on Darkshore to...claw marks on Stormwind). But it serves no purpose other than to say how sad and beaten Night Elves are and then they do nothing about it. I can understand the use of tragedy as a rallying point â but not when it leads to nothing. This repeats itself later, only a few steps away from Darkshore. All through Ashenvale, Hellscreamâs rampage destroys a people whoâve fought for that forest for so long, and none of the questlines gave any sense of closure. There was no feeling of having earned them any sort of reprieve. And at the very end, Tyrandeâs appearance in the Siege of Orgrimmar raid felt brief and unfulfilling, and paled in comparison to what was lost. At the end, it felt like the Night Elves had no part whatsoever in bringing them down.
It was at that point that the writing for Night Elves began to feel not as a series of blunders or part of the inherent difficulties of in-game writing, or wording mistakes, but as active malice.
Outside of the game, it was even worse: âThe Shatteringâ had one of the coolest Classic late game NPCs slaughtered ignominiously: the druid who summoned the Ancient in Alterac Valley (She later returned as another monster to kill in Legion). In âWolfheartâ, the Night Elves are out-ambushed by orcs. At night. In Ashenvale. "Silly" is just the kindest description of it. In âTides of Warâ, Pained becomes nothing but sentimental fodder to be killed for Jainaâs grief. In "Before the Storm", there is a brief, cool moment where a lovely gnome character seems to have a crush on a Night Elven captain and...the elf dies paragraphs after that. A night elf poking their head in a Warcraft written story is like poking into a guillotineâs lunette, the writers stepping into the role of the uncaring tricoteuses peddling hasty product nearby.
Iâm not calling for revenge. Itâs not about retribution. Itâs not about making The Horde pay or suffer; I actually despise the idea of enjoyment in this story being based on a zero sum Schadenfreude game. Itâs about vindication. Itâs about validation. Itâs about what the Night Elves are and fought for; every life in Darkshore, every death in Ashenvale, their values and what they stand for, to be shown having some worth to the story. Something where their way of life is shown to be good for something more than just fodder for The Horde, or new models to be corrupted/burned/in need of rescue, as was Hyjal, Val'sharah, The Wardens in Aszuna, and Vordrassil in Grizzly Hills (which are all storylines about how the Night Elves can't defend squat unless big heroes come and help them. It's not uplifting for any Night Elf fan to see them fail ubiquitously).
Now we have the new Battle for Azeroth Cinematics, quests, stories, the Warbringers, and 8.1, and as ever, the Night Elves are just shown crying, burning, trying and failing, losing everything shown before for no reason whatsoever other than to serve as a module for the story of others. For example: Delaryn, and Sira all serve as an extension of Sylvanas' story building her paralel to Arthas. But for the Night Elf story, they're just hope, killed, raised and used to mock them. They're just monsters that reflect Sylvanas.
Being empowered by a deity, and earning the power to bring ancient lands to...a standstill that logistically cannot have any victor does not feel like an empowering victory in any shape whatsoever.
Everything there is about them is systematically stripped, literally burned, ignored, and it's nothing a new eye color model update makes one feel rallied for. The savage and sometimes melancholic Night Elves one quested with so long ago feel like punishments for having ever empathized with their stories and values. The people who had the âIcon of Wisdomâ as a symbol of what they strived for; those who learned to treasure wisdom from the follies of the past and thus strove for a better future in fixing their mistakes and working with nature become proxies for someone else to shine.
As it stands, I'm dejected, dissapointed, even angry and sad. It's not just because of a recent thing, it's a pattern. The promises for fulfillment in the past have been hard at work earning mistrust. It was claimed last expansion was a love letter to the players, but to Night Elves, it feels like a creepy love letter Charles Manson would write its victims. And the future writing just feels like a looming threat. When it comes to Night Elves, Blizzard's writing turns into a Grand Guignol play written by a vindictive, drunken ex.
I don't demand anything out of this. I just want to expose the feelings WoW's story once brought for me. I am sure anyone who's read this far can remember their first levels in their game, their first NPCs and quests and how and when they learned the tricks of the trade of their class. But only for one race in the game, have those memories been replaced with slaughter for the purpose of mockery, contempt and 'empowerments' made fruitless by logistical stalemates for the sake of a story that, going by precedent, your people will never have a place in.
Thank you for your time.
Wow very interesting.
10/19/2018 12:04 PMPosted by Azurerogue10/19/2018 12:01 PMPosted by NightwĂndNight Elves are their favorite punching bags while Forsaken are their pet race.
Great post.
At least you won't lose your Queen in the end of this.
Or maybe....
Playable Night Elves don't have a Queen.
The problem is War of Thorns. It's completely unbelievable how inept they made the Night Elves. The Horde just strolling up to the tree and setting it on fire is and will always be pretty cringy.
I think Night elves are being given a lot of screen time in 8.1, so I'm not totally with you on the idea that blizzard has just forgotten night elves. I do however understand the desire for justice with regards to teldrassil, which night elves don't really get.
And undead night elves joining the forsaken... I'd love to say they've got a killer twist up their sleeve that makes that make sense, but I'm not hopeful. I would think forsaken players would be mad at this too, since newly raised undead having absolutely no agency means that the forsaken as a race are just incredibly bland and boring. I HOPE that's not the case. But it's looking like it is.
I think Night elves are being given a lot of screen time in 8.1, so I'm not totally with you on the idea that blizzard has just forgotten night elves. I do however understand the desire for justice with regards to teldrassil, which night elves don't really get.
And undead night elves joining the forsaken... I'd love to say they've got a killer twist up their sleeve that makes that make sense, but I'm not hopeful. I would think forsaken players would be mad at this too, since newly raised undead having absolutely no agency means that the forsaken as a race are just incredibly bland and boring. I HOPE that's not the case. But it's looking like it is.
Writing is not exactly Blizzard's forte.
The problem is the Night Elves are when shown only giving ground, giving up, getting pounded into the ground, and given the incompetent stupid bat.
The problem is the Night Elves are when shown only giving ground, giving up, getting pounded into the ground, and given the incompetent stupid bat.
Agreed, OP. Here's hoping the devs don't make a Nelf NPC of you and then kill it in response.
Oh, something I forgot.
Apparently, the Night Elves to the developers are every single NE in game. To the players, however, or at least to me, the only NE's in the game are the ones part of the playable portion of the race.
So, by removing the Cenarion Circle entirely from the race, as well as the Ancients, the race feels hollow. And that was just Vanilla.
Apparently, the Night Elves to the developers are every single NE in game. To the players, however, or at least to me, the only NE's in the game are the ones part of the playable portion of the race.
So, by removing the Cenarion Circle entirely from the race, as well as the Ancients, the race feels hollow. And that was just Vanilla.
It's been obvious since this incident back in 2011:10/19/2018 12:03 PMPosted by Nazjirait's pretty obvious Blizzard is filled Horde biased devs who can't stop thinking about their precious Horde characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2yvZM1wn04
Not to be a negative nancy...
But Blizzard doesnt care.
You are writing this from a place of hurt.
To them, you are invested, so they will hurt you.
You will write something out of anger, and to them, you are invested so they will consider it the way forward.
This isnt a mistake. This isnt Blizzard not resonating with their fans.
Blizzard does bad things to Night Elves because it gets fans upset.
It gets Horde fans riled up and mean and trollish.
And this is by design. Because people are engaged. You want change, then dont be engaged
But Blizzard doesnt care.
You are writing this from a place of hurt.
To them, you are invested, so they will hurt you.
You will write something out of anger, and to them, you are invested so they will consider it the way forward.
This isnt a mistake. This isnt Blizzard not resonating with their fans.
Blizzard does bad things to Night Elves because it gets fans upset.
It gets Horde fans riled up and mean and trollish.
And this is by design. Because people are engaged. You want change, then dont be engaged
They will probably kill Tyrande and Jaina make them a forsaken too, just in spite of the Nelves/ally fans.
10/19/2018 02:51 PMPosted by TyrandiaThey will probably kill Tyrande and Jaina make them a forsaken too, just in spite of the Nelves/ally fans.
Bad writing is bad, m'kay?
10/19/2018 11:50 AMPosted by IlthenIn âWolfheartâ, the Night Elves are out-ambushed by orcs. At night. In Ashenvale.
This about sums up the way blizzard treats alliance lore in general.