Well, this is what I get for biting.
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Show me a quest whose sole purpose is to make the Horde player feel miserable, powerless, hopeless, and defeated, all four at the same time.
A Display of Power.
Why do you make fun of My shame? I don’t make fun of yours. Why do you people have 0 sympathy whatsoever?
-you don’t make fun of the Horde’s shame.
You do this CONSTANTLY. I’ve seen you in multiple threads making multiple posts making fun of the Horde’s shame time and time again. This is an utter and blatant lie.
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The question is irrelevant because it was a whataboutism meant to minimize my dissatisfaction with the story and ability to self-insert to a character by trying to draw a comparison when I wasn’t even trying to say one side or another had it worse.
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Sympathy is a two way street. Can’t cry when your own methods are turned against you.
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Why do you make fun of My shame? I don’t make fun of yours. Why do you people have 0 sympathy whatsoever?
Presented, Varodoc not making fun of the Horde’s shame.
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A troll doing trollish things… I’m shocked. Shocked…
So, onto more important matters.
Subversion is neither good nor bad it simple is.
It doesn’t really matter if the random poster on the internet thinks the subversion of the trope was done poorly what matters is… Did the product make money? Did the product cause engagement and by extension make money? If yes, then good enough.
If no, then you failed and need to move onto a different niche until you find that path to money.
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Not for lack of trying.
Jaina forcefully stopped him.
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That was also 14 years ago. A few things have happened between then and now in WoW’s story. Most of which have not been kind to either faction or their players who were invested in the lore. I apologize if this comes across as harsh, but you may want to move on.
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I think Subversion is also way overused in this case.
The kindly orphan raising priest being secretly a slaving horrific villain is a subversion (or not, at this point looking at some anime)
The Crusader or Inquisitor types being cruel and vicious, but legitimately devout isn’t subverting anything, thats a basic dynamic backed by actual history.
If anything, the Argent Dawn being a legitimately benevolent crusade is the big subversion when it comes to religious tropes.
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You Bobby Kotick?
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Truth.
/10characters
A lot of subversive story beats have ceased being so because frankly, at the point where everyone’s expecting it, it isn’t really subversive any more.
Even if the old tropey way of doing something is hundreds of years old, after even a single year of everyone subverting it the same way because they all think they’re being clever and new, it’s not really legitimately subversive (let alone clever) any more. It’s just the way it’s done now.
Which still doesn’t stop people from continuing to think they’re subverting old tired tropes, even once their subversion has itself quickly and clearly just become the new tired trope.
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I couldn’t agree more. Not only is it being done so much that it seems like the new normal it has been some much that I can’t even remember a story coming out in the last few years that was a classic fantasy story. And while I know not everyone cares for classical fantasy or thinks that it is childish I miss stories like that.
True. When I said about Kil’jaeden, I meant his role in the story, his appearance and his approach (temptation, corruption, deceit).
Just a reminder, I never suggested Kil’jaeden wasn’t evil or a villain. He absolutely was.
We have the same take here. I’d like to see a hard magic approach, but I’d also be fine with a soft magic approach if it’s consistent and clear. Especially one that’s more consistent and clearer than what we’ve gotten so far.
The outlets they gave as examples included large ones from Fox and MSNBC to a few smaller local outlets. It wasn’t an exhaustive list, but it included the largest distributors.
You’re right about it being complicated trying to compare, I was just using what I could get and the patterns emerged.
Most of the sources from the website I was talking about are in the US. That said, in Australia the center has been shifting left for decades. Most things that seem “right-wing” by Australian standards aren’t actually right wing, just further right than the majority of Australia news outlets which are center or center left. Note that Australia has Labor Party and Liberal Party as the main two, but neither are a conservative party.
ABC is currently left-wing, Channel Seven and Channel Nine I’d say are center, swinging between center-left and center-right based on what’s trendy. The only truly right-wing news in Australia is Sky News.
That is a good point.
I don’t think Yrel’s group would side with the Alliance and that whole situation was horribly written.
You’re right. Nowadays, it would be subversive to have black and white morality. It would be subversive to have righteous holy warriors fighting depraved, dangerous heathens.
Why should we have sympathy to a baiter who tries to provoke a reaction on the Horde all the time? You are even worse then Zerde in this regard because unlike you he is at least honest in his bias.
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The last two days has really tempted me to get on my vulpera lock and drive him up a wall. 
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Literally the whole war campaign in Bfa was turned around and reverse the moment the second raid was over. After that Baine already fell to his knees and begged Jaina for forgiveness. Bfa was zero faction pride for the Horde in any capacity.
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Even the Zandalari quest campaign was ultimately undone with the death of Rakastan. A guy who was built up for literal years was killed unceremoniously by Jaina and her besties.
And the death of Rezan hurt too. He was soo cool. Wish our Dino boi didn’t have to die
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I remember when the Horde rallied to defend one of their capital cities. They beat back the Alliance advance at great cost. It looked like the Alliance had finally met its match against the Horde it constantly trampled on.
Wait… never mind … a single Alliance Character on her flying boat levels arcane broadsides at the Horde Capital, reducing the ramparts to ash. She also removes the Forsaken’s defensive blight with a wave of her hand.
Everything the Horde did to defend itself… literally waved aside by a single Alliance demigod.
Miserable - check
Powerless - check
Hopeless- check
Defeated - check
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