Surely, we were on the right track pre 8.1.5 as there was more viability to play and enjoy those level brackets than there is now. Giving a bit of balance and attention—acknowledging that people play for more than begrudgingly gaining experience—that attention would certainly send the message that there is more to end game. The 8.1.5 changes send the opposite message.
They’re historically unwilling to balance lower level classes. Anything, including enchants, that is readily available, is balanced.
The issue is really getting XP out of all BGs, let them provide honor and gear. Let leveling players have an xp token they can buy if that’s their goal, alongside the gear on a vendor. Voila! Fixt.
Unfortunately, you cannot fix players who think they belong in BGs half naked and in whites. There isn’t that many super twinks, it’s mostly just lightly enchanted heirloom twinks plowing noobs(or players that can’t be bothered to improve).
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My impression is that this isn’t the majority of the anti-twinking crowd. I think most just want to not be at a dramatic loss for wearing “only” heirlooms and level-appropriate questing blues.
That impression may be mistaken, though.
Unwilling, I don’t know. Even with 8.1.5 they made changes to specific items that were problematic. Ramstein’s received a major nerf. Incendiary ammo was nerfed. These are specific changes, they just don’t go far enough. It would be quite a simple solution to apply scaling to the few remaining enchants that are problematic, as most are already scaled quite correctly. Why can I enchant my legs with a level 85 enchant? Oh, because they’re heirlooms—I have to enchant on an 85, then mail it to my twink. How about they simply disable that enchant from activating unless the player is 85. Seems novel, and I don’t think its unprecedented for them to do it. I don’t expect sweeping class balance—just fix the few obvious broken things that don’t scale correctly.
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We need templates for sub120 PvP.
I decided to boost a Zandalari Warrior and try to level him through BGs.
What I found is that there are indeed twinks finding ways to abuse the xp on Queue system. I also found that gear disparities still existed without twinking. The average ilvl of a boosted character is 200. Heirloom gear doesn’t bring it up by much. There are still plenty of non-twinks running around in ilvl ~280 gear, making the bracket still unbalanced.
The best solution to remove large gear disparities in PvP is templates. The reason people hated templates was a lack of customization, but certainly it would be tolerable for leveling characters and twinks. (Or just bring back templates, but with a stat allocation system that allows more customization. Like a reforging system for PvP.)
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Well yeah, there are going to be people in 280 Azerite gear, you get it from dungeons. My 112 Rogue in Legion gear and some dungeon / crafted LW blues ( 233ilvl from an alt ) is sitting at 243ilvl. But you can get all three Azerite pieces @ 110, it’ll most certainly help your leveling experience in and out of battlegrounds if you take a few to get 'em.
That’s definitely a mistaken impression. The players who queue in whites and grays are not on the forum, I am confident of that.
However, they are in bgs, and if you point out that people will do better with actual quest gear, the response (from other levelers) is that this is just leveling and no one should have to pay any attention to gearing.
Quest gear is green, not blue.
I seem to recall chain-end quests rewarding blues at least, and now all quest rewards have a chance to roll blue or epic. I guess it’s possible that nobody completes chains but that seems unlikely.
I would say 1 in 20 pieces of quest gear are blue now, which is not enough to make a difference. Dungeon gear is blue, but anyone doing dungeons for gear is going to rapidly level.
Twinks were around way before xpoff was an option.
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I have an idea that i have been pondering for a few days, and this in my opinion could solve alot of issues the playerbase is facing when it comes to low level pvp. For people like myself, I didn’t fully like the pvp stat templates idea, but it did have some nice additions. It did create a semi casual way of being able to pvp and have quick pvp que times, while still just lvling or not lvling through while having your exp turned off and i didn’t mind that. It was nice to be able to log in whenever i wanted and pvp, regardless of how mindless it was.
My idea is this. First off, i feel that slahtz and besthen, the exp eliminators, need to have there text changed to be more specific about what it entails when you turn your exp off. They tell you you won’t gain any exp, but they don’t mention that the brackets aren’t merged after you do so. I feel you should get a warning, stating, you are going to be in a different bracket from leveling, basically telling you you wont be able to see players with their xp turned on in pvp is this ok? Yes or no.
This would keep new players informed, because alot of people turn off their exp for a variety of reasons, it does have its uses, but to a new player, it leaves them misinformed about pvp. So here is my idea. Basically going back to what i said about pvp stat templates, blizzard could add this as an option to xpoff pvp. You would que up for pvp, select to have stat templates on, and you would que with the levelers, with the same restrictions that legion gave everyone. Personally, im not sure about the pros and cons of this change if it were to be made, but it would be a nice option for those, such as myself, who still want to low lvl pvp forever without recreating toons over and over, and just pvp casually, whenever you want to. Some might ask, well, why would you want this, wouldn’t pvp be boring at that rate and non competitive? Sure, it might have some of the same problems as legion pvp did with no sense of progression, but to be honest, low lvl pvp you basically end progression anyways eventually. You have really good gear and other junk, so if your goal is to just casually pvp without leveling, this would be a solution to consider.
If your one of the more serious and competitive twinkers, and you chose to not have your pvp templates turned on, warmode would be activated, and the bg ques would be separated from the levelers for twink only pvp. Again, this is a theoretical idea, and im not sure if someone mentioned already, but its worth a shot. I wouldn’t mind being able to turn templates on so i could just low lvl pvp casually without leveling. It wont make everyone happy, but it would be a nice edition. I tried to be a twink exp off with the ques, but i don’t have the time, and alot of others don’t either, and i think this would be a reasonable compromise that would satisfiy a majority.
What are your thoughts on this idea? Any suggestions?
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Honestly I don’t see the need, I highly doubt any actual new players are going to stumble upon Behsten/Slahtz, since they’re stealthed in a room you only enter once I think? and that’s at max.
There’s really nothing in game that even tells you they exist, I’d be surprised if most people even know about them.
Aside from that, I really like with the rest of what you’ve said. The idea of allowing merged queues, but making twinks have a template, is a fantastic idea. I also like if you don’t want to have a template, you still have the option of twink-only queues.
Quality idea, but sadly I don’t think it has any chance of being implemented. Band-aid fixes are more of Blizzards style these days.
I agree that it’s a decent idea. What about the idea mentioned before about the template slider? Maybe I’m more of a haste guy than crit guy.
Sadly, the playstyle widely attracts bottomfeeders who are not in it for the competition, but for easy HKs against levelers and those people will be very much against any idea for a new system that keeps them from their instagib games. I don’t mean to be Debbie Downer, just realistic.
For one thing, it wont be for hks against levelers, not easy ones anyways. If the stats are normalized, then you are at a relatively fair advantage to any of the levelers in the bg. All of the levelers in the brackets are there for the same thing, plus the experience gains. Its mindless as it is for leveling, and i dont feel it would change to much if templates were added for people who choose to pvp at a specific level and not gain exp. Then its just about the honor, which reaches its limits in usefulness way before it does at max level. If any of the levelers are against people wanting to turn off there exp at a specific bracket of pvp and pvp against levelers while also having equalized gear for the person who decides to turn their exp off. Cant even argue with someone who is so shallow. Having more options is great, but whether we get any leverage from this idea is something that remains to be seen. As for a template slider, that does sound cool. Ill add that as it is a nice way to customize. Idk i was just throwing in my 2 cents. My understanding is that the developers at blizzard genneraly tend to be compromizing folks. Hopefully, something can be done to at least equalize the formula for low lvl pvp a bit at the very least. Templates might not be the most fair thing and not what everyone would want, but it would be a nice option to have for exp off. I think this idea could gain some leverage if seen by the right people. Who knows, its a suggestion.
And it was a fine suggestion. I was just saying that those who stick to low level brackets to farm levelers will surely not like ideas like this. Any ideas that have been tossed around which include some form of them not having an unnecessary advantage on casuals is rejected because those people find it unfair to have to fight fair fights.
It’s rather hit/miss with development now-a-days. It’s not like before when we were kept in the loop on most all things. It’s kind of what you get when the seasoned developers leave and all you can hire are fresh grads. I know that sounds condescending.
I understand what you are saying as well. I dont know exactly know what is wrong though. Blizzard does listen and provide blues posters every once in a while, although not as often on the pvp forums. I fell the only change i added to this idea of template stat based pvp mentioned by yagarr, was that it would be esclusively an exp off feature. I don’t feel it would be needed in low lvl pvp for leveling purposes. It would be way to similar to legions stat template system, requiring everyone to use it.
Im hoping to get some leverage on this idea. I don’t take credit for it but thats my suggestion. Pvp stat templates weren’t exactly received well, but for people who just wanna log in and pvp with their exp turned off. This is how i see it though. You wanna play with exp off with the levelers? Your going to have to turn on a
pvp stat template. Its a compromise and one that doesn’t encourage ganking or facerolling noobs.
Its more of a casual player pvp exp off option though, as i cant seeing it help the hardcore veteran twinks, and i am not one of them. The rewards system for encouraging others to get into hardcore low lvl pvp is also a awesome idea. Maybe each bracket could have its own set of rewards unique to each bracket, but idk. its alot of creativity, but its a shot. Its better than remaining silent and just letting time fly by you without saying anything about something you care about.
They do provide blues, but not like they used to. So much has changed. I know it’s anecdotal, but I’m one of the few who’ve been here since the start (and are not lying about it) and things were much better back then. Blues conversed with us more often, even in here.
However, realistically, Blizzard is a business. When your subs are well above 10M and business is good, you have fluff money and can do all these “little things” to appease a broader spectrum of players. When business dives as it has since… WoD? You don’t get catered as much.
I don’t see a solution being implemented any time soon to fix this.
Its pretty simple if you boil it down.
I (many others) like playing twinked out characters. Happy to pay a subscription, doing so.
Blizzard, make it fun and feasible for me to do this, take my money.
It was like that before, it can be like that again.
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Excellent idea.
New players and players under a certain gear ilvl could queue against AI and get their precious experience from winning, and everyone else could fight each other.
Really, AI should be a thing anyway with how many people have left the game as it is.
WoW is feeling it’s it’s age, and while the old girl still has some life left in it, I think classic is going to split the player base pretty hard core.
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I don’t know how this will pan out in the long run, but I know that between the choices, I’ll be playing the old game.
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