The stigma against twinking never warranted this

Community General Discussion
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FINAL EDIT: https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/1105891459922833408

CONFIRMED SEPARATION OF XP-OFF AND XP-ON

This confirms my worst fears: that we will intentionally be unable to get any games moving forward. As it stands now, many brackets do not have the population to withstand this kind of change and are completely stuck in “limbo” unable to play even against fellow twinks. All of the people shouting “GOOD now you can have your separate queue!!!1” are totally ignorant of the simple fact that this is in essence removing our ability to queue up. We’d love to have our own special queue, but it hasn’t worked that way.

If this is a bug, consider this my bug report.

I am unsure why Blizzard cannot think of ANY other solutions barring this drastic of a measure, including re-introducing stat templates, but this is totally inappropriate considering this will result in unsubs, even from people who play BFA max level.

To all the twinks I ever met, I love you all and I look forward to seeing you in Classic.

I made this a reply to another thread at first, but I feel strongly enough about this to make my own.

Twink queues do not need to be separate. In fact, with this change you are, in essence, removing the queue for us entirely. Considering the fact that this EXACT change was made expansions ago only to be reversed finally, I would have assumed Blizzard knew the effects it made on us before. It killed our accounts.

Twinks have always equalized each other out, and allowed for fun side content which contained its own microcosm of theorycrafting, community-building (I myself own a 700+ member community in the 50-59 bracket - a fairly SMALL bracket), and groups of friends.

Hell, some people including myself have spent over 10 years twinking, and have commited some major time and money sinks into the creation of our twinks.

If this change goes through, that would be devastating to a HUGE chunk of the WoW population.

Blizzard, we are begging you, do not return us back to the dark ages.

EDIT: This post gained more traction than I expected (this is good.) Currently, all we know is that twinks can queue up for BGs but wait endlessly to no avail for a match. This effectively prohibits them from playing their character until they enable experience which forces either leveling their characters out of the bracket or deletion of the character entirely.

There is a lot of venom being thrown at us twinks by others. To some extent, this is understandable as we have all been killed by people who outgeared us. I personally deal with this every time I play a new character in pvp at 120, or any time a new gear progression is released.

But I ask please, to keep things civil and at the very least help us discuss solutions that allow BOTH parties to enjoy the game HOW they want to enjoy it.

EDIT 2: One idea to combat the clash of new pvpers and twinks and skilled pvpers in general, is to introduce a separate queue for NEW players and PVPers. This is a complete reversal of what has already been done, but I think it follows the same philosophy WITHOUT removing an entire population of players from the game. If new characters and pvpers were placed into their own queue, until a certain number of games they could be placed into the regular queue. The game doesn’t need to be anti-fun, if proper solutions are put in place.

I don’t think this is it.

EDIT 3: I am fully aware my post has been flagged as spam. I am not surprised. To those reviewing it, I hope you understand I am coming from a place of confusion and concern. Toxicity is a part of this game, it should not be part of this thread.

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All twinking ever did was discourage new and returning players from pvping, it’s a pain to go into low brackets and have to compete with twinks, they needed their own lowbie rated bg system.

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I mean, if your community is really that big, why does it matter if you have separate queues now? And sorry, but when I PvP’ed at lower levels, it was NOT fun to be against twinks, or have twinks on my team steamrolling the other team.

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I mean, if your community is really that big, why does it matter if you have separate queues now?

This is a very frustrating assumption because most people don’t understand…

With this change, it doesn’t matter if my community was 700, 1400, or comprised the entire server - WE CANNOT GET ANY MATCHES. It seemingly removes the queue for us entirely, it does NOT even fulfill its purpose of segregating us. I hope that makes sense. As much fun as a 10v10 all twinks WSG would be… we can’t even get that.

And sorry, but when I PvP’ed at lower levels, it was NOT fun to be against twinks, or have twinks on my team steamrolling the other team.

I understand how annoying it is to be targetted by twinks when you’re lower geared, but the difference in stats between a BOA’d and dungeon geared leveler and a twink is negligible. Just put a minor amount of effort into your character and you’ll be able to roll with the twinks on YOUR team, fighting the ENEMY twinks.

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All I can say is that NO ONE would be surprised if Blizz did this on purpose and just threw it in under the radar to see how much backlash they would actually get. OR… they’re just incompetent and cant ever put a patch out right.

Clearly a change like this NEEDS to be documented, so it shouldn’t be intentional.

But the whole point is that no one would be surprised if it was. That’s how little your reputation has become. Cheesy, dishonest, inept, completely out of touch… what ever happened to quality? Integrity? Communication? Now it’s just cash grabs and ninja-changes to squeak every penny of sub out of us you can before driving us away. Sad.

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The big part would be not telling anyone. Clearly there’s a loss of subs should it be working as intended.

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The vast majority of twinks that I’ve met and friended over the nearly dozen years doing it have only been in the game for competition, not for the unfair advantage they have over “noobs” and “levelers”.

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Bug report it, don’t just assume they’re not letting you play, period.

If it was that simple/easy, why’d you spend years and money getting it done? Why should I have to even twink myself to play against/with twinks? It’s not just simply “annoying”, it can be disheartening and discouraging to players that just want to have fun, not get steamrolled, or stand their with their thumbs up their third point of contact.

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If it was that simple/easy, why’d you spend years and money getting it done?

As with any hobby, the end result depends on how much money you put into the project. Currently, a twink is actually very fast and cheap to make. I help people make their twinks all the time and twink communities like mine exist to MAKE it easier.

Imagine saving money over the course of years to collect a few nice old cars, only to have them all requisitioned 10 yrs later

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I’m not really sure the whole “it’s not a problem; all you have to do is play the game the way I want to play it” bit is the best argument I’ve ever heard. I understand that separate queues killed the twinking community but I think it needs to be accepted that some people are never going to like twinks and some people are never going to see a problem with them.

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they needed their own lowbie rated bg system.

Then where is it? Blizzard, where is the queue you gave us with this change?

Today is patch day, do you not think EVERY twink on US is not testing the queues. Especially considering this patch changed a lot of stats on items and gear. Trust me, we’re doing our best to find games. We cannot.

Our characters are effectively locked.

I’m not really sure the whole “it’s not a problem; all you have to do is play the game the way I want to play it” bit is the best argument I’ve ever heard. I understand that separate queues killed the twinking community but I think it needs to be accepted that some people are never going to like twinks and some people are never going to see a problem with them.

Exactly. I am fully aware of how hard it is to fight this stigma and defend what we do. Posts like mine are about as far as we can go and they’re always met with majority opposition. What can we do? Are we supposed to roll over and take this?

Can there be improvements made to lessen the gap between levelers and twinks? Absolutely. So why not start there? Clearly there is not a high enough population across all brackets to support twink-only BGs. We have been through this before.

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it would be one thing if every one you come across didn’t have a name like “getrektnoob” and just gy camp instead of doing objectives. bgs should be fun regardless of level, and that’s for everyone. ALSO you don’t really any exp for losing a bg which is bad for levelers and twinks don’t care, they’re farming kills.

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bgs should be fun regardless of level, and that’s for everyone.

Unless they twink, apparently.

Something I wanted to add, is that this came out of no where. This was a stealth change, and we were not warned nor notified by any means. You couldn’t read about this in the patch notes, or test it on the PTR.

Either way you look at it, I’m still waiting for Blizzard to come out and clarify what the hell they did.

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no, i’d have no problems at all if a. there was gear normalization in bgs and ilevel wasn’t king and b. there was no way for someone to dump gold into a toon specifically so they can wreck noobies. if you want to stay at 59 your whole life because you like the community better that’s fine. it’s not fine however to ruin the experience for others.

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I stopped using RBGs to level because of twinkers.
No point seeing someone blast a whole team with little to no effort and being near unkillable if paired with a twink healer.
Or as I call them, those-who-have-no-life.

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Great post, my man. You summarized my feelings nicely. This is a pointless change that affects so many for no reason, we all pay our monthly fee and freedom to play in the way we choose is getting smaller every patch. I have unsubbed as a vote towards this ridiculous and shady change.

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why should you twink yourself to play with others… idk why should you get better gear to improved your character to kill that harder mob or boss… that’s the dumbest thing i have herd

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Or as I call them, those-who-have-no-life.

This is why I titled my thread the way I did. Any time twinking is discussed, and real concerns are brought up by real paying customers, we get shot down and insulted.

But does that REALLY warrant the complete inability for us to play our characters anymore?

Again, and I will always say this - I’m SORRY if you’ve ever been targeted, camped, or BMed by a twink. This does not represent the majority of us.

We want to compete with each other and be the very best we can possibly be, and spotlight our skills in a smaller audience than at max-level. To us there’s real competition and glory to be had here, and we organize twink-only events all the time to encourage this.

Please do not devolve discussion of this into petty insults. We’re here to play the game too and right now, we can’t.

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I agree 100% if you complain about twinks in BGs, then maybe YOU should twink?

Stop being lazy and just gear your characters or stop using the worst method of XP gain to try and level. :man_shrugging:

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why should you twink yourself to play with others… idk why should you get better gear to improved your character to kill that harder mob or boss… that’s the dumbest thing i have herd

Exactly. To us this is not a side-project. This is not a mini-game. This is how we play World of Warcraft.

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