That’s what happens when the main path to upgrades is Raiding.
Players flock to the content that rewards the best gear at the lowest effort and least amount of time commitment. That’s M+ now and if M+ existed in TBC then most players would be running Dungeons instead of Raiding.
Why not just… nerf M+ gear outside of M+ dungeons? That way M+ enthusiasts can keep blasting while raiders can focus on raid drops for BiS.
Simple solution, make raid gear upgradeable like M+ loot is.
I love the Great Vault and the current state of M+, I don’t raid mythic so being able to get the mythic gear from running +15’s is awesome and I really appreciate Blizzard for making this happen.
Hopefully Blizzard will continue rewarding M+ players like they did in Shadowlands.
Unpopular opinion but I enjoyed Shadowlands, raiding and M+ even though this expansion has been hard on guilds.
People didn’t leave because of M+. If anything M+ has kept the population stable.
Not a bad idea. Although it would just be better if we remove M+ gearing.
Why not just take Valor to the Vendor and select a BiS item without needing M+ then that way you have BiS gear to compete in M+ if you enjoy that activity!!
2 birds with one stone. We fix the issue with M+ killing this game and we remove the Toxic Great Vault that is a weekly chore list.
Gear progression right now isn’t good. That needs to be fixed in DF and will be DF’s biggest problem they have to solve from SL moving forward.
I feel both sides of this. I used to LOVE raiding, and it was awesome. Mythic + is like mini raids, and its not as much fun overall and doesn’t feel like an accomplishment like raid progression. It feels disjointed and unbalanced because it kind of is. Look at the raid loot vs mythic loot in vault and its all right there.
That would work. If heroic raid bosses dropped something like ‘valor’ that would allow upgrading raid pieces to mythic iLvL 3 iLvls at a time the raiding only folks could spam raid instead of spamming the forums.
Sure they have just like they left D3 because the game was only about Rifts and players wanted a game that actually has content so they went to PoE. M+ is the same problem as Rifts. It’s boring, painful activity for most and that makes it a chore you either do or Quit because.
M+ = Rifts and we already saw Rifts kill one game. History will repeat itself and we are on course for it. That is the real shame here. It doesn’t have to be this way.
That just isn’t true I would say that for 1-2 expansions but now it’s hurting the game far more. M+ is a system that has more hate attached to it separating the player base.
The population would be stable if the Devs made content instead of M+ since it’s World of Warcraft. M+ is NOT content it’s an activity and most people don’t want to do it. So you are wasting the players time.
suepr duper TLDR here:
You understand that while you have feelings about m+, Blizzard has actual data right? They can see how many accounts are participating in keys regularly, they can see how many engage past the point of gear rewards, they can see how much time people spend doing keys.
They cater to m+ because that is what their data tells them the playerbase wants.
Take m+ out of WoW and watch how many people leave.
metrics and algorithims are a terrible way to make high art and sports like chess…, we just end up with tiktok then
also i dont think you can or should take out M+
those ppl need catered too
it just shouldn’t be the primary #1 focus of all the attention there needs to be more for thought into the other aspects of dungeons than just AoE and timing affixes.
Anyway 70% of players do M+ because they are short and low commitment. You can change all the other aspects of that and it will still cater to those players and maybe they’ll even enjoy the new format better.
And diablo immortal.
Provided raid gear only worked in raids as well. After all why should they be the only end game system that would be allowed to reap benefits in other content including open world as well.
All to often I see M+ should not work anywhere else but my raid gear should continue as normal…
Ok, let’s analyze this terrible argument.
I am a car manufacturer. I look at metrics and it tells me that 90% of my customers want SUV’s.
By your logic I should build a sportscar, because high art.
It’s actually a lot of reasons. You just zero in on one because YOU don’t like it so it fits your narrative
Abombshield is right tho LOL
SuVs should be illegal unless you are a like government agent 
, i digress lol
the real question is, do you need to make SuV’s (like absolutely HAvE tO) to become filthy rich???
I bet the designers, devs, would be happier and make a better game when not forced to make SuVs either ROFLMAO
look at the efficiency of modern life all these metrics and algorithms and computers telling us everything we ever wanted and it’s streamlined everything into mediocrity and oblivion you can see it across almost every industry and walk of life its super sad — Definitely only follow the numbers and totally ignore your feelings on this one!
(thank you for the teachable moment !!! big virtual hugs)
The majority hates it? You have any data on that or are you just superimposing your opinion on the masses?
Maybe you should read all of my posts, then, since I clearly explained it in a post (in this thread) prior to the one you’re replying to.
Yes you got that right there are a lot of reasons.
Wrong it’s a huge part of the problem that has only one outcome. We seen how this plays out and what Rifts did to D3. We have seen how the Toxic Great Vault only hurts this game and it’s players. Why not correct course now!!! Steer away from the Iceburg we know what happens when you hit it.
We just want to fix the problem because we want players to be happy again some day. We hope that we can have a World of Warcraft again that people love because it’s been many many years since we had that.
The Vault and M+ will continue to be a black mark on this game till they are addressed. Remove the vault chore list and just have Vendors. (fixed) Remove gear from M+ and have it be a competition mode for Seasonal titles, mounts etc for people that are into that. (fixed)
Everyone that doesn’t want to do M+ doesn’t have too now (fixed) Get players into the content/acitvities they enjoy instead of hitting them with a weekly chore list that makes them unsub.
Make sense…Good 