The over-importance of M+ Key runs

I don’t see the point in every mechanic being boolean. It means there is really no difference between a +2 and a +20 as getting hit with anything kills you. The point in having tiers (or key levels) is so that you can learn and progress.

Normal progressions should be M0 is a participation reward while lower keys are for learning the more dangerous mechanics and routes. Mid keys are for learning some key tricks your class has and some of the more subtle mechanics that didn’t hurt previously, high keys are for knowing everything about the dungeon. Capped keys are for people who want to attempt flawless runs that require cheesing mechanics that one shot.

Hell even raiding follows this type of progression.

I agree actually. I just think the initial plus 1-10’s in general are too forgiving there is normal, herioc, and +1-6 for that.

People aren’t learning until it’s +12’s then everyone rage faces and goes OMGOSH NERF this is so bad i can’t stand it… blizz Y u ruin game, om gosh u rune my +15 KSM ksksksksksksks

blizz isn’t setting expectations because they want extremly goofy players to feel good about doing their 15s lol (me included!) everyone gets the achieve !

Stack enough vers, especially with shrouded and u can walk right thru the fire to vIctorY!!! tho ))) haha

While I’m not against this in concept, it seems like a tall order that’s also bound to annoy a lot of people (mainly M+ players).

I think the biggest issue is, despite M+ and Raiding being very different activities, they both fall under the PvE umbrella and are treated as the same thing as far as gearing is concerned.

If they simply separated them by allowing M+ gear to excel in M+, I imagine much of the resentment would be gone. They could even do the same for raids & raid gear if that became an issue for the M+ meta.

Being encouraged to no-life the game for power advantages has been something they mostly stayed away from during wows lifetime.

They’ve kept a leash between players who can play 24/7 and those that can’t through design choices like raid lockouts, conquest caps, valor caps, exponential diminishing returns on artifact/Azerite power, timegating, etc.

Mythic+ is in a weird spot where the best items are time gated (278, vault only) but with uncapped valor and no dungeon lockouts it’s encouraged to spam as much as possible for 272 gear in every slot. It pretty much crushes every other form of gearing unless you’re in a guild that pushes deep mythic raids early in the tier.

And even that I think is fine if they made the rewards to difficulty ratio higher. Heroic level vault gear should come from 15s not 10s. Mythic level vault gear should come from 20s at least not 15s.

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Because the data the blizzard has paints a different picture than your feelings.

It is worth remembering that your ‘incredibly upvoted thread’ about m+ not being content had a few hundred upvotes. For every one of those agreeing with you, there are will be multiple that never even see that thread because instead of coming on a crusade about m+, they are just logged in playing the game doing whatever content they enjoy.

And from a data standpoint, good chance that content is m+ because by the numbers huge numbers of players like it.

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100% i have a 301 waiting for me in the vault tho. I hope it’s something good at least. wouldnt mind a 301 So’leah Trinket )

M+ is stupidly over rewarding for no reason at all. Even the gear dropped per key is too high compared to the difficulty, let alone the obscene ilvl boost that only M+ gets in the Vault. At the very least, the Vault boost needs to be done away with, it screws the entire power progression on the PvE side of things - people end up being mostly mythic geared before they even finish heroic. And I’m one of those players, and I hate going into raid knowing the loot drops are going to be mostly meaningless.

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Not sure why M+ players would be annoyed. They have BiS gear available faster to compete in M+ and push better keys.

This also is true for Raiding. We get Raiders doing Raid progression faster when they can take the PvE resource of Valor to a Vendor and select BiS items. I’d also like the return of Raid Vendors for Tier or Unique Trinkets.

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If people want to no life that’s their choice. Just like anything else players want the freedom of choice. If you want to play once a week, you don’t deserve similar to what someone else has put more time into.

Yeah, they do need to look at the reward system. I will say though doing heroic raid this tier is like doing a +10 at max.

I think they should remove keys. Maybe a gear limit for the week for the dungeons. Just let people run the difficulty they want without this timing penalty.

Have you done Heroic Fated CN?

I’m all for the valor point idea allowing you to target pieces of gear, and I should mention I much prefer your idea in the long term, but I still think it’s a bit of a tall order for the immediate future. A future expansion maybe, but I can’t imagine this happening in Dragonflight.

Yea, that’s fair. That was closer to a +12 key this week.

Yeah we cleared it with no problems aside from the council bug. Dramatically easier than when it was last live.

We were totally winging it too.

Which Key? Mech and Taz are basically free keys at this point while Kara and the Grimrail in particular were PUG killers.

With the nerfs and power upgrades from the Vault they’ll all be easier.

I would put most heroic raid bosses, especially in SotFO as harder than 15s.

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Last season yes, this season so far a hard no.

+10 is way closer to Normal raiding. +15 are generally close to mid-Heroic bosses.

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M+ is definitely the way to go if all you care about is loot. I got 10 drops from about 30 keys last week.

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And the modifiers for THIS SEASON have all been tuned way down for raid.