You act like I’ve never raided or don’t have a wealth of friends in game who actively raid.
My heroic raid team swells from mid 20 players to 10 or lower players on raid night as the tier progresses. This accelerates after the raid is full cleared on heroic, this is a thing that happens.
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And in Heroic, some people can do that. You can’t do that on Mythic, because Mythic doesn’t scale below 20.
That wouldn’t address most of the issues the community has with Raiding though and would only help the sweatiest of Mythic Raid Guilds until they burn out.
Mythic Raiding is too inaccessible for most players for multiple reasons. Realm locking until the Hall of Fame and the static size are the primary issues. Guilds on lower pop Realms are fubar with the current design.
More drops per Boss and a less obtuse upgrade path seem like better and more universal solutions to get people Raiding again. Heroic Raiding is the bread and butter difficulty for most and is the closest version of Raiding to M+ in terms of accessibility and difficulty and it needs some help to survive.
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Then it means you can…
Thanks for playing!
Yes but that is a different goalpost from
Mythic raiders being held hostage by the roster boss isn’t the only form of raiding. And it makes sense for mythic raiders to do some reclears since bench players need ce and mount farming is a thing. But if your guild can’t beat the roster boss heroic is basically the limit and people get bored of running heroic weekly.
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That’s why they should add mounts off the last boss for Heroic, too. Rather than the one-and-done AOTC mount thing.
Yup that is the conclusion to reach. Heroic raiding needs to be more rewarding not that m+ needs to be less rewarding.
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It absolutely does. Too many tryhard logger and progger types forget most people aren’t actually like them and are only doing the content, be it raiding or mythic+, because it is the only avenue to the rewards. Especially when you get overly tuned raids relative to the expected difficulty and skill level of the players at that level.
Group I was running with got AOTC and that was our last raid night. Couldn’t even muster enough bodies to go for achievements because people were fed up and frustrated at the tier. Most of them are raid or die types who, at most, stomach a mythic+ to supplement their vault.
Everyone in my circle wouldn’t raid if Blizzard didn’t keep throwing FOMO content at it because raid groups are archaic and far too many “leaders” cling to the old days where they got to be little psychopaths who relished in their power to control your progression and control your life or “punish” you if you didn’t bow and kiss the ring.
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M+ has swallowed up the end game in WoW. I was an avid PVPer, and I had a ton of trouble jumping into arenas with honor gear. Everyone I was up against had gear from M+.
M+ needs to reward any gear, just cosmetics.
M+ was good for 1 or 2 expansions. Now it’s outdated and shouldn’t be a focus anymore. Definitely shouldn’t have any gear progression in it. That way players don’t have to waste their time doing M+ if they don’t want to. Just hurts the game when you have to do chores.
It’s funny that TBC Classic has 100 times the Raid participation of SL. There might be more people raiding in TBC than playing SL right now. I think Blizz should take note of that and why maybe they are experimenting with Fated Raids.
However M+ really should take a back seat and think it’s a real shame that Esports has ruined the game and how they balance it.
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Which is good!! Then you remove the toxicity of M+. You remove the people that leave when things go wrong cause M+ is a chore you have to do anymore. You remove Toxic players that are pissed off they have to do M+
Arena doesn’t reward any gear in Dragonflight. M+ should follow and be a competition mode only just like Arena. Both Esport models should be for competition NOT gear progression.
Right now the majority of players in M+ feel it as a chore and it wastes the players time which leads to more people Unsubbing and that is worse than M+ participation. Being forced into M+ is like suffering from 1,000 paper cuts. It’s painful. The games design shouldn’t be painful.
Which is fine and how it should be. This creates better competition just like in Arena. Don’t make this seem like a better idea than it already is we are sold!!
And in my friend group all with exception of one player only continue to raid because some of the trinkets and weapons etc. are needed for m+. By your logic, I can use that anecdote to say
“Everyone hates raiding. Literally nobody in the game likes raiding. Everyone only does it because it drops loot. Delete raiding.”
I will never understand why you anti-m+ andy’s can’t just keep your opinions to yourself and not engage with m+ if you don’t want.
If you were looking at the situation in good faith (which you are not), you would recognize that the biggest hurdle for raiding is the consecutive time commitment. It is much harder and less desirable for a lot of players to fine 2-4 hours of continual play on multiple nights a week than it is to find multiple times to run a 30-60 minute dungeon.
The only concession I would ever be comfortable with to these “m+ ruined my life” arguments would be for them to make all gear work like PvP gear where it lvl’s up in the content it was made for.
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Max from Liquid very rarely does M+, therefore you can raid effectively without doing M+. No need for anything to change. I’m glad you don’t work at Blizzard.
Okay and how many millions of those parses are force chores that people hate!! M+ isn’t popular it’s a forced chore you have to do if you play World of Warcraft and it has to stop!!! This is why SL has the worst player metrics in every area compared to other expansions.
Players are tired of Toxic RNG gear from a Vault after doing a weekly chore list that wastes their time. They can play other games and that is what they did in SL. If you want players to have FUN stop making them do chores they hate.
If you want the millions of players that left to come back stop ramming M+ down their throats!! It’s not complicated. M+ is hurting this game and driving players away because they lost sight of it’s design.
Sorry but M+ is hated in it’s current state and the majority of the player base rather not do them again. We like to finish the dungeons and be done with them for the expansion not repeat them.
M+ is basically just Rifts from D3 and we saw how Rifts killed that game!!! Don’t let M+ keep killing this game too!
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Never said you couldn’t.
Thanks for playing.
This would be a good thing probably. Maybe the bulk of the playerbase that left will come back too.
Two things:
Willing to bet most players who are doing their ‘forced labor’ m+ keys aren’t logging them.
Any log for a key over +15 is not people doing forced loot runs, because beyond 15 there is no loot incentive.
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I don’t understand honestly why they can’t make content more about appearances and make loot more like renowned covenant stuff or like on a long season XP chain (perhaps with the chance for early drops from bosses, but basically you know you will get your tier after so long guaranteed if you just play any XP granting content.
There is NO Arena gear. They are removing it and going back to the WoD 2 system gearing. There is only Conquest gear now which is BiS and you don’t need to do ANY Arena now.
Which is great cause the majority of PvP players don’t do Arena. So we are happy we can go back to the most enjoyed format of PvP gearing from WoD.