The New Unofficial Thalassian Elf Megathread!

Before I get into the full thread, this thread is for full discussion on High Elves, (Alliance Alligned High Elves or Horde Blood Elves). Doesn’t matter who likes what, everyone is entitled to having a discussion about High Elves. But please, do not mass flag this thread if you disagree with it, and do not flag any post unless the post is actually breaking the Code of Conduct! (harrasement, trolling, etc.). After all, I don’t know about everyone else, but would love to keep the discussion clean without people going around and calling everyone else a troll or hypocrit or kid or just being outright toxic.


High Elves on Alliance:

Lore of Alliance Allied High elves

Who they are:

The High Elves of the Alliance are a subrace of Thalassian Elves formed by many groups of High Elves aligned with the Alliance over Azeroth and Outland. Despite people associating them with the Blood Elves from Quel’thalas, those High Elves remain as a distinct group as they didn’t follow the same path as Kael’thas and the rest of their kin, preferring to remain in the Alliance and keep referring to themselves as High Elves.

In World of Warcraft they are present in many places and events as part of the Alliance, their main faction is The Silver Covenant , which is still in active as their mages maintain the portal to Dalaran in Stormwind. Representing the Alliance in the Argent Tournament, taking part of the Purge of Dalaran and leading the offensive in the Isle of Thunder are among their most important feats to the faction. In Legion they were one of the main forces in the Hunter Campaign and in the liberation of Suramar. As for BfA, they are mostly represented as mages, mainly in the 7th Legion as the Silver Covenant is so far absent.

The Dalaran High Elves are the largest population group of them, composed mainly by commoners and mages. The Silver Covenant is a military group of High Elves that have a district of Dalaran as their operational center, the Silver Covenant also serves as mediator to reunite the High Elves when a military effort is required.

The Allerian Stronghold is an Alliance settlement in Terokkar Forest built after the Second War by High Elves from Quel’thalas that volunteered to fight with the Alliance all the way to Draenor. They were led by Alleria Windrunner herself.

The Kalimdor High Elves are a group of elves that followed Jaina into the continent after the downfall of Lordaeron due to the Scourge. After the Battle of Mount Hyjal, they assisted Jaina in building Theramore and fought under it’s banners as long as the city stood.

There are also High Elves from lodges around the Eastern Kingdoms, namely the Quel’Lithien, Quel’danil and Farstrider lodges. They are composed by more nature inclined High Elves and skilled Rangers. - Written by Mowachassa (US)

More information can be found in this thread in the OP’s post!


Blood Elf Customisations

the majority of them never even tapped into fel. the green eyes were explained as fallout from lingering fel magic used during the reconstruction of silvermoon. now theres a new sunwell and we finally got gold eyes. o-k…

but still no blue? you would think that with this new sunwell to tap into their eyes would lose the green and revert back to blue or whatever their natural color was

please blizzard consider adding eye color choice customization for blood elves beyond gold and green! :hugs:

From this thread!

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Quel’dorei for the Alliance :+1:t4: Give me a reason not to be Horde anymore.

Alliance races are meh…

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Thank you for creating this thread.

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High elves don’t exist anymore.

You get blood or void, customize from there.

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Well this is cute.

Why not both indeed.

Well, I thought to create a thread for all types of topics in regards to Thalassian Elves considering from both sides (Anti’s and Pro’s) are now complaining about spam, whether it is about Customisations for Blood Elves or High Elves for Alliance.

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I’ve had a reoccurring dream lately about a revamped eversong woods and silvermoon.

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Only if it looks like theramore. :wink:

It’s overdue really.

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After seeing this entire debacle play out since Void Elves were revealed, I have noticed a couple things. Firstly, that Ion, and thus Blizzard, haven’t changed their stance on High Elves since Blizzcon. Secondly, that High Elf Hopefuls keep bringing up the same arguments that they claim supports High Elves.

Despite our Lead Game Director Ion Hazzikostas stating quite clearly on two different live streams that High Elves don’t make sense as an Allied Race, why they don’t make sense, and that there are no plans in the immediate future for High Elves, I am here to refute each and every one of the copy and paste points people keep bringing up, and give clear, logical explanations as to why they don’t work or make sense, in hopes you all can reach the same conclusions Ion and Blizzard have!

Ready? Let’s begin!
1: “High Elves are different enough from Blood Elves!”

I see this one a lot, but no. Sorry. They aren’t. The High Elves went through no mutation, no physical change, no evolution or otherwise genetic alteration after Quel’thalas was sacked by Arthas and the scourge. Kael’thas renamed the High Elven people Blood Elves in memory and honor of their fallen, and for no other reason. It’s been only 30 or less years since Kael’thas renamed his people Blood Elves. They are racially, genetically, identical. While people love to think of High Elves as “pure” or Blood Elves as “tainted”, which are both untrue, given the recent golden eyes of the Blood Elves, it doesn’t appear that tapping demons’ magic to sate the elves’ magical addiction did anything cosmetically permanent. Blood/High Elves that succumbed to their hunger became Wretched. Blood Elves that overindulged in fel became Felblood Elves.
2: “Blizzard did Pandaren for both sides, they can do Blood/High Elves on both sides! How could it dilute faction identity more than Pandaren?”

I’m going to go ahead and say most people asking for High Elves don’t play Pandaren. Why? Because they represent the lowest number of players within their own faction out of ALL races. Last number estimates show about 2.5%, per faction. Combined across all of WoW, roughly 1 in 20 plays a Pandaren, whereas Blood Elf numbers are the most populous among Horde races, having been roughly equal to Human numbers in Alliance for most of WoW since TBC.

Also, for or those that don’t know, Blizzard regrets doing Pandaren as a Neutral race, to the point that I can say we’ll likely never see another Neutral race. Since MoP, it’s basically impossible to write Pandaren lore now, because their forces are split faction, and we haven’t seen them do anything notable in WoW since MoP. Their identity is basically nothing.
3: “High Elves’ lore and history is rich enough to stand alone!”

Except any High Elf history is also Blood Elf history. High Elven buildings, tabards, crests, architecture, vehicles, weapon style, etc. is Blood Elven except painted blue. The only notable High Elven characters left are Alleria and Veressa, but Alleria now leads and represents the Void Elves going forward, leaving only Veressa. The two have been separate for only 30 or so years. Not nearly enough to diverge or have enough unique history.
4: “Nightborne are just Night Elves, so we should get High Elves even if they’re just like Blood Elves!”

Nightborne spent 10,000 years in arcane isolation from Night Elf society. They physically changed from the powers of the Nightwell, and their culture changed immensely from worship of Elune. They bear little cultural similarity to current day Night Elves.

They are far more similar to the Blood Elves in that isolation around a magical font of power changed them drastically over time. Blood Elves originated as Highborne Night Elves that were cast out for continuing to practice in the arcane. This doubles as a lore reason as to why they find allies in the Horde through the Blood Elves, as they can empathize with their plight.
5: “High Elves chose not to feed on demonic magic! They sated their magical addiction through other means! Their culture is so different!”

If I make myself a ham sandwich and offer you one, but you tell me you don’t like ham and would prefer a turkey sandwich, I wouldn’t turn around and call you culturally different from me.

Regardless, as of the end of The Burning Crusade expansion, where Blood Elves were introduced to the Horde, the Sunwell was restored as a font of Arcane and Holy magic, removing the inherent need for Blood Elves (or High Elves) to sate any magical withdrawal. Lor’themar has also continued to allow High Elves to make pilgrimages to the Sunwell. You can see High Elves in a post-TBC-era Sunwell during the Quel’delar questline, and more recently, the Nightborne recruitment questline, where he even granted Alleria an audience.
6: “We can make High Elves different enough from Blood Elves! Look at all these tattoos and tribal motifs we made! Void Elves are not what we want!”

Re-imaging the High Elves to all look like extrapolations of some Warcraft 2-Era rangers isn’t solving the problem. The problem is that Blood elves are High Elves. The problem is that the fantasy of a traditional LOTR “High Elf” is a Blood Elf.

Blizzard hasn’t been deaf for all these years when Alliance ask for High Elves. It is NOT a secret, but they likely took a look at High Elves and agreed that they are just Blood Elves in fantasy, skin tone, hair color, origin, and feel, with the only difference to speak of visually being eye color.

So they made an attempt to see how they could spin and mix up a Thalassian elf enough to merit inclusion on the Alliance. They made a compromise. They gave it a prominent Thalassian leader with strong Alliance ties, and they provided it with a unique, flavorful aesthetic to set it apart from other races, most importantly their Blood Elf counterparts. In these areas, I think Void Elves were a success. They also currently number greater than any other Allied Race of either faction, so it sounds like most Alliance are enjoying them.
7: “You say there’s not enough High Elves left, but there’s even less Void Elves, yet they are an Allied Race!”

Let’s start with basic stuff. Actual NPC numbers, towns, factions in WoW, etc, do not represent canon numbers. WoW is a representation of a multi-game IP. Example: The canon number of people in Goldshire is somewhere in the thousands, where as in game, I don’t think you can find more than 30 NPCs.
The point being, we don’t know how many High Elves are left. We also don’t know how many Void Elves were created. People’s perception that there’s less Void Elves than High Elves is based on in-game representation, and Void Elves were literally just added, so of course there will appear to be less. This has definitely changed going forward as you can already see them in BfA events, and they even have their own Island Expedition team. High Elves, barring a single NPC here and there, will only see less and less limelight as Void Elf stories move forward.
8: “High Elves were there in the Nighthold cut-scene! They represented 1/3rd of the forces there!”

The two main factions involved in that quest were the Blood Elven forces under Liadrin and the Night Elven forces under Tyrande. Veressa made an appearance so Elisande could insult her and her people for diluting their bloodline with humans (ouch!). Because she showed up to help Tyrande with a glaive thrower and a few of her Silver Covenant does not somehow equate to being one third of the forces there.
9: “Blizzard reverted their stance on Classic Servers! If we make enough noise and cry enough, they’ll cave on High Elves!”

No, definitely not, and if this is the reason you keep arguing about it, please stop. The two are not at all the same. The lack of Blizzard Classic servers was causing unauthorized private servers to pop up and recreate this experience, and Blizzard has to protect their IP, so they shut them down. However, they realized there was more of a crowd/market for this than previously thought, so they announced official Classic servers to cater to this demographic.

If you honestly think there’s as many people clamoring for High Elves as there were for Classic servers, you severely overestimate your vocal minority.
10: “Ion doesn’t know his lore. Ion isn’t listening to us! Ion should be fired!”

While this isn’t exactly an argument and more of an opinion, I’m including it here because it’s flooding the forums while High Elf Hopefuls go through their stages of grief. Ion isn’t Lead Game Director because he doesn’t know his lore. He’s also not the only person that weighs in on these decisions, though it’s easy for everyone to bash him because he is the messenger.

Ion in my opinion does what any good developer does: experiment, keep what works, cut or fix what does not. Through the Q&A’s, we’ve seen the progressing stance on unpopular things in Legion like Legendaries, RNG, AP grind, etc. and in BFA, all of these are getting addressed, while popular things like Mythic+ are seeing dungeons specifically designed around it.
11: “If Blood Elf is the High Elf Fantasy, then NIghtborne is Dark Elf Fantasy, and Horde are getting those! They look just like Night Elves!”

I would say no here. Nightborne were isolated for 10,000 years from Night elf society. That’s as long as it took for Night Elves to transform into High Elves after their exile, leading to the creation of the Sunwell, and those two are obviously different races.

If you hadn’t caught the obvious, the Nightborne was basically a Legion-era retelling of the Blood Elf storyline:
“An elven people (Blood Elf/Nightborne), physically and culturally warped by thousands of years by exposure to a mystical font of power (Sunwell/Nightwell), find their leader had consorted with the Legion (Kael with Kil’jaeden, Elisande with Gul’dan). A splinter faction within these people (Scryers/Nightfallen) rise up to overthrow their leader and purge them from Legion taint and control.”

The only difference is that Velen reignites the Sunwell, whereas Thalyssra decides to destroy the Nightwell. Either way, they culturally and visually clash with Nigh Elves, who have shunned practice in the arcane since Azshara and The Sundering, having only recently allowed Night Elf mages to tenuously practice since Cataclysm.

Back to the question, Nightborne were given unique idle animations, had the Night Elf signature flip jump removed, and given only one eye shade between them. Nightborne get Warlock as a class option. Nightborne also have severely limited customization options, less than that of any Allied race despite being the most fleshed out in Legion. Whether that serves to severely limit their palette, or indicates they were merely worked on first, I don’t know.

I find Nightborne plenty different from Night Elf, considering the entire first story arc in Legion is dedicated to explaining and detailing this, and given the changes mentioned above.
12: “High Elves being barely different from Blood Elves is just like Lightforged Draenei being barely different from Draenei, or Highmountain being barely different from regular Tauren!”

Yes, of course. But unlike High Elves, Draenei and Tauren are not crossing faction lines. They are just more Alliance Draenei. More Horde Tauren. More Alliance Dwarves. More Horde Orcs. The only two Allied Races thus far that “mixed it up” would be the Void Elf, a compromise to the Alliance to get the Thalassian model, and the Nightborne, a compromise to the Horde to get the Night Elf model.

Using any other comparisons between Allied Races to merit High Elves is a pointless endeavor, because Blizzard specifically catered these two to be opposing and opposite compromises for each faction. For an Allied Race that “crosses faction lines” a more drastic set of rules and distinction would be required.

Text is from the old ‘anti’ primer. Written by Lydon, saved by Guzzle.

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It is. In my dream it’s a blend of suramar and sin’dorei aesthetics.

Really hoping they do give us High Elves on the Alliance… it’s long overdue…

As for the blue eyed customization on Blood Elves… there’s some strong lore reasons as to why this actually shouldn’t happen honestly… as mentioned, the green eyes were from exposure to fel magic (whether they personally tapped fel magic or merely exposed to fel magic radiating from the fel crystals used in the reconstruction). However, the blue eyes were a result of massive infusions of Arcane energy from the original Sun Well. Without a constant source of Arcane energy their eyes would not revert back to blue. The new Sun Well is a source of Light, not Arcane, this is why those who have been empowered by the newly restored Sun Well exhibit Yellow/Golden eyes. Elves thrive on magic and their eyes reflect the source of magic that has fueled them. While it may not be impossible for a Blood Elf to regain their former Blue Eyes, the lore strongly implies that they would all either remain Green or adopt the new Yellow/Gold. This is also why most of the remaining High Elves have settled in locations with large sources of Arcane Energy. That said however, there are some inconsistencies in the lore to this regard… Most notibly the High Elves of Quel’Lithien, Quel’Danil, and other Farstrider Lodges… Many of them having either sworn off magic entirely or focused more on nature magic, their eyes also should have changed based on the magic of the lands they inhabit (Orange being the most lore appropriate from Nature magic.)

The reason I say the High elves from the lodges should have orange eyes is quite simple. It’s not just Thalassian Elves who’s eyes reflect the source of their magic, Darnassian Elves and Suramarian Elves also exhibit the same aspect. As any who are familiar with Night Elf lore may be aware, lorewise Males were typically Druids while Females were usually Priestesses and Hunters. This is the primary reason for the difference in eye color between male and female night elves. Males draw their power from nature, as such they are infused with Nature Magic and their eyes reflect this with an orange glow. Females draw their power from Elune, they are infused with the power of their goddess whose power is expressed as a silvery-blue light, and their eyes reflect the same silvery-blue light in their glow. From that we do however get a clear cut lore example of the effects of Nature magic on Elven eye color. So if Night Elves who thrive on Nature zmagic have Orange eyes, then a group of High Elves that similarly thrives on Nature Magic would also exhibit the same Orange eye glow.

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I would love to see a revamp “world”, everything from Quel’Thalas to all of Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.

I thought High Elves have threads already and “don’t need more”. You should stick to Blood Elves and discussing them, but there are already topics for that as well.

Hm…

Some of the dreams also included a revamped outland and some cool quests as far as I can remember.

The revamped quel’thalas also had new quests involving high elves as well.

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I truly do not want another elf race. High Elves would just look the same as belfs and void elfs, just different colored eyes. I don’t care if I can ever have blue eyes, more customization would be nice but High Elves aren’t meant for us mere mortals. :open_mouth:

Have you seen Silvermoon from somewhere high though? Speaking about a carboard cutout.

Yeah I have. I’ve been trapped behind the ghostlands too, and under the sunwell falling and dying for eternity.

Fel rush is dangerous in some zones.

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Man, I fel rushed my internet once and lagged out fully until DC. Back in Legion, I ended up with a disconnection after using Fel Rush, and well, I was fel rushing for ever.

The set of matches from the midsummer event trapped me behind a wall in wailing caverns. I was on a ledge overlooking nothing but darkness, but at least in that case I was able to hearth.

I’ve needed help a couple times because of this sort of thing so I try to be more careful.