This would almost be true, if it wasn’t for all the Saurfang cinematics followed up by Thrall and Jaina reuniting again, just like Warcraft III, as per my point.
I’m well aware of that quest. My point was that Blizzard didn’t bother bringing it up in the revamp. This is the same quest giver from that Classic quest:
Bael'dun? Destroyed?
<Wincing in pain, Gann twists his head to peer behind him, where plumes of smoke darken the skyline.>
<name>, my friend. you have avenged Taurajo and avenged the Tauren people. The invaders will not soon recover from that blow. Thank you.
<Gann closes his eyes, his head tipping forward as his breath gives way to a series of ragged coughs.>
I disagree:
Though, overall my point was that I suspect Tarrok probably would do the content even if Tarrok didn’t like it.
I can definitely empathize with people who feel this way. But what I don’t understand is playing the War of the Thorns event all the way through when one would feel like a bad guy from the very beginning of it.
If you disagree with not doing the content being an unacceptable answer, then I am afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree. Besides that, starting a quest chain and then stopping it midway through is really difficult for me personally.
So, I’ll play the game, therefore it’s alright to feed the horde something I can’t say here due to language to make the Alliance feel better about their story?
You really would think so wouldn’t you? But once you realize how Saurfang’s cinematics are being used (in effect, they are essentially supplements for content not actually in game … to show events surrounding him that the PC would not be privy to) … his cinematics leave a strange taste.
Sylvie in contrast … its pretty clear whatever “true objectives” she’s trying attain are going to lead into a new expansion. Its part of the reason the story seems to bending and shifting around her, with the Alliance having to pull its punches far more than it should DURING the war; and the Horde leaders that should have moved against her long ago … sitting on her hands for so long
It is strange to notice such strange writing trends … perhaps this is why I had my rage-quit moment in Legion (Stormheim) when I realized that this sort of nonsense is the EXACT reason Sylvie replaced Jin as Warchief. It was almost inevitable this would happen.
I obviously have no real way to show or even suspect that this would actually have impact, but playing what you don’t like just shows Blizzard that they can feed you exactly this and get away with it.
Saving Baine alongside Thrall and Saurfang was in the game. Even Sylvanas loyalists were given it as content.
I do agree that I find this likely all to be the case as well, though, yes.
Is there something stopping people from stepping outside of the game and going “Hey, they’re paying the same thing I am to play this game, and they’re just as unhappy as I am with the story, maybe I shouldn’t be suggesting ways to pile it on more?”
I understand that a lot of people are unhappy with the story on the Alliance side, with how Teldrassil went down, what the quests put you through, how the follow up fell flat, how the engine can force scenes that should be short and tense into drawn out messes (would nathanos getting away been as bad if the fight was shorter and seemed more urgent for him?). Or how ineffective the Alliance feels, always reacting and not acting often and then when things turn around you always have to end up letting the horde go because we’re a playable faction.
I get you’re unhappy, and most of the time (like when I’m not in the middle of these arguments) I want you to have a better story too. I’m not entirely sure how to get there, I’ve offered up at least some ways to let the Alliance smack the horde around in a way that gives us something we’ve been missing. But I don’t know what you’ll think is proper.
The biggest frustration for me in these arguments is that I keep feeling like I’m being told I’m wrong for not liking the story that is supposed to be catering to me. That despite how horrible it feels that at least I’m winning somehow (despite us losing more battles in BFA). I talk about how bad the story made me feel and you’re trying to explain to me how that means I should just suck it up for the story that will make you feel good since I played other things that felt bad.
No, we’re just stuck with the same problem Blizzards is: There are a lot of people playing this game, and a lot of people want different things from its story. This thread was a follow up to a thread where a lot of Horde fans said they did not want the Horde to lose anything in response to someone saying they should lose devastatingly.
So I offer a suggestion where the Horde doesn’t lose anything, instead gets to play heroes and helps make the Night Elves happy.
But you don’t like that because you don’t want to apologize for something you were forced to do.
We can suggest all the things we want, but someone around is going to dislike it for their own personal reasons one way or another. And likewise, no matter what Blizzard gives us, especially at this point, someone’s going to dislike it.
I don’t necessarily feel like I should have to atone for anything. I know that Teldrassil was… excessive, but I think that comes from this weird mix in of IRL sentiment towards Blizz that’s like “you made me do this, why are you lambasting me as a monster for doing it?” so I refuse to really feel bad for it. If Saurfang wants to go whip himself for his role in WoT he can go do that, but I’m okay.
I should have known we were in for a bad time from the moment Sylvanas told me to show no mercy to those savage elves because they would never show me any… and the first one then told me he didn’t want to kill me but he would if he had to…
But that doesn’t do anything about the underlying problem. It just becomes another example of how for the most part the only time the Horde can be heroic is by working for the Alliance. And it sounds like it would be more infighting between horde groups.
What happens after we do our community service? Do we get another scolding and sent to the closet until the next time we’re needed to make the Alliance feel better about themselves? I don’t want to be back at the same place where it seems like nothing we lose is ever good enough.
I want the Horde to get the same type of storytelling as the Alliance has, I know it’ll hurt when we lose them, Camp T hurt when I played Cata. But it was a good story. We need time invested into our stories, I mean, not just horde, but most races feel like they have had less lore written about them than the Night Elves got in the WC3 manual alone. grumbles something about how anything the Tauren had getting stolen by grubby alliance hands
I knew we were in for a bad time in Stormheim when the first thing Sylvanas did after “swearing vengeance” for Vol’jin was to … dick around in Stormheim doing her equivalent of grocery shopping (absolutely ensuring she was stuck on her stupid character arc from Edge of Night … trying to avoid her own afterlife). After that, all she really did was piss of Greymane’s forces.
Pshh … she led us to victory against squat Baine; what you talking about?
I’m hoping what comes next is Blizzard unifies the factions and all players can play together, that way Blizzard can’t ever go back to faction war nonsense.
This I agree with.
If you’re talking about Druid stuff, Taurens didn’t have Druids in Warcraft III.
I’m curious: where would you place the line between having the NPC Horde atone vs. forcing the Horde player to atone?
If, say, the Horde player had dialogue choices during this hypothetical Battlefield:Ashenvale where they could choose between atonement and ‘whatever, just here to kill some evil ex-Horde’, would that be enough? Or would you prefer that the Horde gets its own Horde-only, Horde-centered rebellion arc, while some Horde NPCs get to make it up to the night elves in Alliance-only questing?
I agree that this is an awful feeling for the Horde, but it’s just as grating for Alliance players to get to sit back, watch the next iteration of the Horde pinky swear to be real good this time, and know that whenever the writers get bored, these same characters will freely go slaughter some innocents and get only a slap on the wrist. No, scratch that - only a boring talking-to, not even a stern one because bad words might hurt their feelings. This MoP carousel is terrible for both sides and I want to get off.
But what would it have hurt the Night Elves if waaaay back when before there was a Malfurion Tauren and Cenarius were buds and they were druids and then forgot about it?
Mainly it’s the fact that we have this diamond dwarf who’s probably a tool of the old gods strutting around pretending he’s the voice of the Earthmother since last expansion and the closest we’ve gotten to a Tauren reacting to the knowledge that Azeroth is indeed a female Titan is Baine saying “The Earthmother is dying…” in a cutscene.
Wait wait, I almost forgot, a diamond dwarf we lost Cairne for, apparently so it wouldn’t feel uneven during the time until Magni’s telegraphed return.
Funny thing about this argument is horde players keep complaining about being bad guys this expansion because of burning the tree.
However in the same breath argue that the Horde should lose any battles because of this.
What I say we need is the Alliance to come at the Horde hard and do some damage. Have a war campaign where the Alliance goes after the Bloodelves and drives them back into the city. Then have them attempt to block the Alliance from entering Silvermoon with their shield only to have the Alliance send the Void elves in and the Destroy the Sunwell. The Blood elves have to flee and the Alliance takes Silvermoon minus a Sunwell.
Now the blood elves would be angry as well as alot of the other Horde races. The Blood elves go back to being Mana vampires, perhaps helped by the Night borne.
Night Elves are already evolved Dark Trolls. Don’t need any more history revisionism when you’re ironically complaining about Taurens not being allowed to steal Night Elf story.
You might want to complain about the Titans on that front. Azeroth being a baby Titan puts an ironic twist on Dwarves being all about wanting to know about the Titans, and the Tauren previously having had to stop Dwarves from digging up their land for it.
Gonna have to complain to the Darkspear about that one, too, then, since Vol’jin came back all the same as Magni.
A lot of the Alliance argue that this is exactly this case. That they are nothing but the punching bag to the Horde’s story advancement.
Do you not see the irony of your own statements?
The things that we can consider that Horde has lost to the Alliance directly are laughably small.
I would hate to see you actually lose stuff to the same scale as say Theramore or Teldrassil.
You literally were grumbling about Night Elves “stealing” Tauren story, to then ask why it wouldn’t have been bad for the Tauren to steal Night Elf story.
If you want to stomp your feet and pout off and not be taken seriously, I can oblige and keep talking to others instead.
Thats a really good question actually. I think to me, it matters when this is taking place (pre/post Sylvanas inevitably exiting the story), but I think making it optional for the Horde player to partake in would be ideal. I am personally very tired of killing other horde soldiers in my war campaign.
I’m not the kind of person who isn’t going to do content that is needed to move forward though so if I have to do it, flavor dialogue options where i can be a bit snippy would probably be enough for me tbqh.
![:unamused:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/unamused.png?v=6" ":unamused:")