I was mainly grumbling about the fact that despite the fact that it seems about the only bit of lore the Tauren have is that they love the Earthmother when what would be the most explicit way of having the Earthmother be a thing that there was not a single bit of reaction to it from the Tauren and that as a Tauren every interaction goes through a dwarf.
If say the one moon manifested itself with a female avatar and made her presence known on Azeroth through, let’s say, Gazlowe. How would you like that?
I think this is another good point to consider. Since the Horde is likely to split pretty soon into outright war between Thrall’s Horde and Sylvanas’ Horde, that could free up the Alliance to get in a solid victory against Sylvanas’ Horde without hurting the player’s Horde.
Of course, that assumes players won’t continue to commiserate more with Sylvanas than the rebels. Or get sick of yet another rebellion plotline. But, considering the hole the story has already dug itself into, this might be the least painful way out.
To me, this issue boils down to two glaring issues that need to be resolved: The Alliance feel like failing idiots and need a win, and the Horde player has already suffered from losses and the villain bat and doesn’t need more of them. Trying to chart a story that solves both these points is tricky, but I think it needs to be done for the health of the story.
To pull this all back to topic, Tyrande has not gotten to say anything about peace with the Horde, though.
You know, the simplest solution might be that the Horde exclusively do Battlefield: Mulgore and the Alliance exclusively do Battlefield: Ashenvale while Sylvanas over extends herself and loses on both fronts, but neither side actually has to help the other.
I’d be okay with that. I might actually like that, if there’s enough details included.
If the writers wanted to get maximum content for minimum work, they could even have the WQs for those two zones be available to both factions, with or without a breadcrumb quest, so that it’s possible but entirely optional for the player to go help out the other faction.
I do, however, have to point out that I can neither see Anduin and Jaina not coming to help Mulgore, and frankly, I can’t see the Night Elves leaving the Tauren to the same fate that befell Teldrassil, either.
Even during Garrosh’s war against the Night Elves, the Night Elves still came down to Thousand Needles and helped the Tauren get Freewind Post back. And on top of that in Legion Malfurion actively pleaded for the players to save Thunder Bluff from being corrupted by the Nightmare.
I have been siding with Sylvanas through the war campaign mostly out of stubbornness and spite towards blizzard and some lingering fondness since she used to be my favorite character back in the day but I think it’s very likely she’s going to either betray the player (openly) at some point or just peace out and leave to become Kerrigan or whatever which will effectively remove the choice from us.
I agree 100%. The story has become a mess to a point where most people aren’t happy with it. Hopefully moving forward they can salvage it and realize that Recycled Plot Points + Shallow Shock Value(which is immediately swept under the rug and forgotten) =/= a satisfying story. At least with the faction conflict. I am actually quite enjoying the old god story lines .
It’s absolutely relevant.
It may not slake your desire to see horde players SUFFER, but it’s absolutely at the cause of the disconnect here.
Without development there is nothing to lose, it’s just a name being crossed off a list with no context behind it. With development you give a thing meaning, interest and such. When something has those things it becomes unpleasant to lose it, makes it something you want to protect.
You kept talking about the need for the horde to lose something significant, despite the outcome of the war campaign, Dazar’alor, and Lordaeron. Some of it is just being blinded by bias so since you don’t think they were enough that they shouldn’t count and only your losses mattered. More of it is the fact is that those events didn’t have too much for the horde to care about.
Lordaeron was emptied, Brill, we don’t talk about Brill. All that was there to protect was a tactical position that frankly doesn’t have any importance in the game and Sylvannas. After WoT Sylvannas. Why did we really want to protect her?
You want us to lose things, you want us to suffer a loss? We need to actually have things and a story around us TO lose. I mean, I’m sure you’ll find a way to explain how the Horde really won in a battle that hurts us like Teldrassil hurt you, but you’d have to work a lot harder than if you just keep getting hollow victory tally marks of random horde settlements that don’t have any attachments to them.
Which has more to do with the human story crippling the story for the other Alliance races than anything else.
Everyone’s arguing about why the Horde needs to suffer when it’s clearly the humans we all need to come together to stop before the Void Elves get completely corrupted by N’zoth so Anduin can be sad about losing more people and Jaina gets to be in another cinematic to freeze them all in place so we can escape.
I’d be perfectly fine with that. I’d like to go help the tauren - I just want to get some Alliance developments (not Jaina or Anduin ones) and some night elf closure before this faction war arc ends.
I have to say, my favorite theory for next expansion is one where N’zoth wins and his Black Empire conquers the entire world reduces both factions to scattered holdouts of survivors, just so that the faction war plot can get thoroughly destroyed without a hope of ever coming back.
Edit: And I’m sad that this plot has driven me to want this result.
it really isn’t it is a completely different topic.
I want ME to lose things because without it our faction and characters have not grown a bit.
They are still the same old thing with absolutely ZERO growth and not to mention I have zero incentive to be hyped for this stupid war. What did the Alliance do to me for me to be hyped in killing them?
At the same time I don’t want to be their buddies either.
Jaina lost theramore and has been completely revamped and buffed.
Night Elves got genocided and are stronger than they were before.
It seems suffering makes things progress in WoW and because we have had no suffering we have not had any progression either.
But it’s not just the Humans any more. Now we have the burning of Teldrassil being all about how Saurfang feels and so that Thrall and Jaina can be best friends again. And even Darkshore being the Night Elves’ big come back moment turns around to be “Hey, why don’t we give the Horde some Night Elves, too? Literal ones this time, instead of just vaguely Night Elf shaped Blood Elves from Tyrande’s hometown.”
To be honest, I’d like to help the Tauren, too. I like the Tauren.
But yes, Night Elves need something to help them move on from hating the Horde, so, I still think at least Saurfang should come help them get their lands back.
This reminds me of something a guy I watch for dnd advice said, it kinda goes with my horde getting beaten badly by the alliance as one method to jump start getting past the mess that the WoT left.
‘Lots of players want to be John McClane, they want to get their butts kicked and they want to win.’
sometimes it’s nice and cathartic to take a beating and come back from it to overcome your situation.
![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
.