As long as you have a decent number of real dps specs and everybody is buffed up, I really don’t see the problem with taking a few oddballs. I wouldn’t make them the backbone of the raid or anything, but you can probably afford to take five or six of them.
So long as you pass dps checks on boss, youre fine, enjoy playing with people makes it more fun, but people who talk of min maxing are normally hypocrits since most of them work for a living therefore they dont min max at all…
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Nothing sucks the fun out of mmorpgs quite like players like the OP and the hyper min-max silliness.
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So is anyone going to actually argue the mana issues hybrid classes had trying to dps which held them back in raids or just keep assuming I’m a min/max elitist?
Or maybe I’m just having some kind of Mandela Effect remembering Balance druids being called “oomkins” all the time…
Unless people are suggesting there’s absolutely nothing wrong with a class going oom 90 seconds into a fight just trying to sustain their rotation.
Maybe if I didn’t have any other options that would be cool.
But I do.
People like to try splitting hairs between optimal and viable. A lot of the “it’s just not optimal” are giving people the wrong ideas in my opinion.
Yes very few people make efforts to play optimally. But I believe most people try to be efficient to some degree. In that they won’t intentionally hold make a run take longer if they don’t need to. If they don’t have a reason to bring a less optimal spec they won’t.
It only matters in min-maxing.
The tier sets arent nessecarily for DPS - in TBC they were able to make 1 set take on 3 roles but in Vanilla the math was dubious at best…
Now - a lot of hybrid classes have mana issues but with careful management and abuse of the FSR they do alright. Mana pots and other things which were time locked not “once per combat” are the saving grace of all…
There will be A LOT of guilds out there trying to min-max based on the private server statistics but there will be so many people who really dont give a damn and just want to raid.
Telling them they CANT do it, flat out, is false. Telling them hey, its not optimal and you might have difficulty trying to play the quote un-quote “off spec” for raids is more secure.
Not everybody will min-max. Not everybody will want off specs.
with 40 people per raid it makes A LOT LESS of a difference than with blizzards flex raiding BS where you try to take as few people as possible to run with to off-set mechanics.
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Be prepared to get flamed for telling the truth OP. People hate the truth. When they hear it they form Lynch mobs.
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In vanilla off-specs werent minded only in the TOP TOP TOP end guilds on my servers ever required certain specs to be 100% or you’re not joining the raid that day…
the one example he uses of a fire mage in MC is ridiculous in of itself cuz… most of the instance is fire immune so you literally CANNOT play that spec.
Everything else though is available. Not optimal… but available… to be utilized because even those off spec classes bring a little bit of something increased to the table…
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If your concern is “efficiency” or “time”, and not “is it fun”, you’ve turned WoW into a job, and not a game.
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People CAN raid in whatever spec they want. But they can’t raid in whatever raid group they want. They’ll have to find a raid group that doesn’t care that much about meta. The farther you get from Meta, the smaller your pool of potential raid groups become. As long as someone is ok with that trade off, then it’s whatever.
The problems usually start when people tell everyone what they have to play, even people that they don’t play with. Or when someone demands everyone includes them regardless of how far out of the meta they are. Find a group that fits your approach to the game and let people with a different approach do their thing.
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Optimal doesn’t equal required.
But hey, you’re paying your sub fee so go play with like minded individuals and I’ll play with fellow casual players who don’t mind some experimenting in pve ![:wink:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
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o.0
You are basically arguing that someone who doesn’t want to be a melee hunter in classic instead of ranged since that won’t actively hold you back is trying to turn it into a job and not a game.
World of warcraft raiding is a job in classic.
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The counterpoint to the whole ‘blizzard itemized gear x way so that’s the only way’ is what they did NOT do, which is of course restrict/pre-designate raid spots, QED they intended flexibility. That logic train runs in both directions folks.
Please tell me how any of this applies to a dps spec such as Balance Druid or Elemental Shaman being unable to sustain themselves mana wise over the course of a raid encounter due to not having the proper mechanics or itemization readily available to do so?
How does playing with “like minded people” make these issues go away?
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I mean people can do ok on those specs it just takes a lot of work and odd gear, just look at Seplladin builds for ret that focus on spell damage, they need a lot more effort and farming but it can be viable.
Edit:Another example is the Wolfshead Helm for Feral druids.
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You can down naxx bosses as a bear just like you can down naxx bosses as a hybrid dps.
You really just need tanks/heals/dps to complete content, the only real limiting factor are the hard controls “ie fire mages in mc”
It will be easier with pure dps specs but it isn’t impossible if you have hybrid dps apart of your raid.
Don’t really see the fun in being tolled what to spec, where to put every talent point, etc.
Creativity and surprises are what I find fun
Honestly in my experience, when the group is breezing through content at a brisk pace because we are all spec’d right, geared up, chanted, buffed right, and using the proper consumables we have a lot more fun.
Because we aren’t stressed out from cutting things close or wiping and we can be more jovial and carefree during the run, rather than calling people out for mistakes or poor performance.
Now I don’t expect players to be screaming at each other for MTs that don’t have Lotus flasks up (Honestly I expect most guilds will be stockpiling Black Lotus for when AQ40 and Naxx roll around) but I doubt we will see many sub-par builds being seriously brought into anything higher than BWL.
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even fire mage in mc is a better thing than oomkin droo;
frostbolt is a core spell as i remember; you can use it and still do some comparable damage even without a single talent point in frost tree ;
but prot paladins is a real dissapointment …
may be you can complete content as “prot” paladin, but you can’t do it as “tank”
noob. I tanked molten core as arms spec back in vanilla and would top DPS and threat meters at the same time… I ran molten core as a shadow priest and got top dps and top healing in the raid. I convinced my guild to give me Sulfuras for the +fire resist for my Arms tank Warrior and got it. Its all a matter of player skill and NO vanilla raid really required very specific specs. It was more about having the right dispels, buffs, and “good enough” healers and tanks and DPS that knew what to target and keeping everyone standing out of the fire. min/maxing was for noobs who couldn’t handle noob raids.
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