Telling players they can bring whatever spec they want into raids

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
61

It’s a worse slog playing a spec you don’t enjoy. It’s a game. Pick a spec that is fun. If the game is more challenging for it, that’s a good thing.

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62

I want to play fire mage in MC. Let me in your guild.

How about this: I think we can all agree at least that if you do plan on playing a hybrid class as dps or tank in raids, DO NOT join a guild that uses loot council.

God help you if you join a raiding guild that uses loot council. Unless they are 100% equal and transparent about it, you’re probably going to have a bad time.

63

Even the higher end raids have an abysmally low raid dps requirement. Patchwerk is something like 380 dps per dps needed not including tanks. At that point, even hybrid dps can pull almost double that.

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64

They have midget leagues bro. 2019 wake up.

65

Ya, they are just fine. i was making a joke, poking at the OPs snooty mindset.

My point was they arent as good as priests. Its the whole viable V optimal argument that is kinda dumb. Classic raiding had its “gear checks” or “Dps checks”, and some fights required a more defined type of group make-up. Point is the hybrid classes are often completely shunned because why would you bring an ele sham when you could bring a resto? Why would you bring a ret pally when you can bring a prot or holy one?

Will you have a much harder time finding a raiding guild as one of the “sub-par” specs? YES. 100%

Can you still find a progression style raiding guild as any of these specs? Again. YES. 100%

As long as your goal isnt “server first!” type of progression you can still progress and enjoy 99% of the content as any of these specs. Enjoy yourself and make friends you heathens!

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66

Telling players they must spec a specific way to get into your raid means ur guild is basic, bro. :partying_face:

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67

i remember this one time before i started playing wow.

i was sleeping over at a friends house, and he was doing Ragnaros. (i didnt know what that meant at the time), so he was introducing me to the classes and everything, he was a hunter. there was an obscene amount of characters on the screen (40). anyway, his raid started, they pulled rag and started attacking him. once they attacked him i realized i was hungry. “hey, Alex, wanna grab a pizza?”

it wasnt until over a year later, when i was a raider myself that i realized what happened. my buddy said yea sure, and just left the computer. his character kept attacking (auto attack) and we went and grabbed pizza. we called it in ahead of time and picked it up, then drove back home.

we got back just in time to do loot. he got a piece of loot off of ragnaros that night.

if a hunter can afk for the entirety of ragnaros and still not be a liability, im sure a feral dps druid can try his hardest and not be a liability.

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68

I guess there was a meeting I missed at some point where everyone decided going oom in the middle of a raid boss (yes even with consumables, hybrid classes non-healing specs had notorious mana management in vanilla) doesn’t matter or affect your ability to play?

And I fail to see how claiming vanilla didn’t support all specs equally in a raiding environment on a mechanical level is a “snooty mindset”. I’m not saying “you shouldn’t be able to raid because you’re not the tip top min/max best” I’m saying when I’m contemplating grinding for GM to have competitive gear for PvE as a viable option, ya done goofed somewhere.

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69

hyperbole?

70

We had people that ran non-traditional specs in our guild (and we were competing for server-firsts). What usually ended up happening is they didn’t see any real gear until the more traditional specs had been outfitted first, since it meant the most contribution overall. We had an epic meltdown over Razorgore and some cloth shoulders he dropped… A shadow priest wanted them, but they were clearly better suited for a mage and so the mage got them because he could pull double the dps of the shadow priest.

71

MC, BWL, ZG, and AQ20 can all be done with some off specs (within reason) and subpar players not playing perfectly. You probably won’t be getting any “server firsts” (but who cares 15 years later) but you can get it done. There are different type of guilds with different goals. Find one that caters to your idea of fun.

People that are suggesting that off spec people never got to raid at all are either liars, have forgotten, or are stupid. Heck worse comes to worse you can wait until your guild has something on farm and then some folks can bring their alts. It all depends on what your guild allows.

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72

LOL

Nobody can justify that fire mage in MC can you? Nope! You can’t do it!

“But I’m colorblind to the color blue and fire looks so much better and red is my favorite color and I’m allowed to play whatever I want in any content so inv”

PISS OFF TIMMY! Go respec frost like the rest of the mages! 'Cept for Billy over there he’s gotta keep WC up for the rest of you lot, the fool. MAHA!

Idc how casual your guild is ain’t nobody bringing a fire mage into MC. Or a destro lock for that matter.

“But that doesn’t change your role though, so it doesn’t matter as much!”

Who cares, hypothetical hypocrite? I already said red is my favorite color so I want to play fire. You can’t invalidate me because that’s not fair and I’m entitled to play whatever I want wherever I want. Where’s my fire mage inv?

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73

“I have one example case so my point stands in opposition for all off-specs!!!”

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74

Nightmare? Nope. The only nightmare is dealing with people like yourself who scream in VOIP and cry over every little hiccup. Grow up a bit. You’re as mature as you were 15 years ago and that isn’t a good thing.

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75

I guess you don’t understand what “within reason” means.

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76

Whelp I guess we’ll see in classic, in vanilla off specs certainly weren’t very welcome but in classic I’m sure we’ll see raids filled with weird specs right?

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What have I said in this post that made you assume I’m some psychopath in discord?

It feels like I keep saying one thing and people are reading something else entirely, so I’ll try putting it this way:

If you asked me what the #1 limiting factor to certain specs performing well in raids was in vanilla my answer would be: mana issues

And the only argument anyone’s put forth in this entire thread so far to refute that issue, was consumables, which still isn’t always enough. It was difficult to accommodate for due to how gear was itemized as well lacking enough mechanics to help you sustain for the course of an entire fight.

I started this thread because I was concerned nobody was discussing this issue when it came to why certain specs weren’t sought after for raiding, usually being written off as “community elitism and bullying”, and I don’t believe that’s entirely the case.

I guess I should’ve elaborated a bit more right off the bat instead of letting a crappy/snarky analogy do all the talking, so I’ll admit I dropped the ball with the OP.

I’m not talking about player skill or server firsts. I wanted to discuss how the actual fundamental and mechanical shortcomings of the hybrid classes also contributes to their undesirability in raids.

But again, I never meant to come off as saying “these specs shouldn’t be allowed to raid” so much as “WHY exactly, in all aspects of the game not just community wise, are these specs harder to raid with?”, so that people could be more informed if that’s a route they wanted to go.

But looking back I can see where I failed to convey this and got a little heated towards certain responses, so I apologize on that front.

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78

While it might read as harsh, if you’re setting this as a minimum DPS then the threshold for usable specs is so low that you could play as anything. You’re basically saying, “no afk’s during boss fights”.

79

I leveled this Mage as Arcane because the Nightborne as fire/ice did not fit the Race.
I did not like the limmited spell school, but liked the portal usage. Pull 2 and eat or die.

Just switched my Hunter to Melee SV. Hunter is a lot more fun. But everyone wants the MM… Up to 100 switched between BM and MM. The BM still wins but the MM will be first to Raid.

80

:+1: And if that were true, Mother Nature would have kicked us all off the planet a long, long time ago.