You said “They were provided to her precisely because she is a beloved and adored main character.” The story and Val’kyr (which you erroneously call plot armor, still) are not necessarily because she’s beloved and adored. So that’s not a strawman.
More likely she got a suicide story to help give the character a new direction that was previously focused on revenge. As well as seed more plot hooks, as seen how the Val’kyr are used through various Cataclysm zones.
Except they didn’t need to do any of that if they didn’t want her to die. They would have just not written her dying at all.
Val’kyr being able to bring people back to life was well established. Adding a restriction is a diminishment of that power and not brand new by any means.
And the likely reason being to give her new direction and story hooks.
Except they write those supposedly poor decisions. Again, if they wanted to save her, they simple don’t writer her as dying. You’re trying to ascribe some internal agency to her that the writers have to account for when they decide her actions and fate. These aren’t some absurd extra-narrative fiats anymore than Malfurion killing someone with his druid powers is plot armor because they introduce, ‘hey, he’s a druid!’
It isn’t an ad hominem to claim I think you’re misusing a term.
Unusual ability would be a very key word in this, though I would say illogically and usually in an unlikely manner.
When Kel’thuzad dies and goes into his phylactery, that’s not plot armor, that’s just how lich’s have been established to work.
When a slain demon goes to the nether, that’s not plot armor, that’s just how demons have been established to work.
When Sylvanas is brought back by Val’kyr, that’s not plot armor, that’s just how Val’kyr have been established to work.
When Varian blocks a sword from killing him, it isn’t plot armor, he’s been established as a master swordsman.
You said that I think a character getting story development is due to being beloved and adored. That is the strawman.
And yet, we see exactly how far that got her. BTS: Sylvanas’s goal is still revenge, wanting to kill all of Stormwind.
That’s wholeheartedly irrelevant. They DID have her commit suicide and gain plot armor from the act.
Valkyr being able to bring people back as undead was established. Sacrificing themselves to hell in the act was not. It certainly didn’t happen in ICC on the way to Sindragosa’s chambers.
They didn’t have her pursue a new direction. She continues to be vengeance focussed unto this day. The only differences in Sylvanas then and now is that she got over Arthas and she can/has come back from the dead repeatedly.
Again, to show off her new powers.
It is when I’m not.
Out of curiosity, outside of Liches, who boasts Sylvanas’s power to be killed and return from “”“wow’s version of hell”""?
Them being ‘provided to her’ is plot development, and you claim that’s because she was beloved and adored. So no, it isn’t a strawman.
If you want me to disagree with the idea that Golden novels suck, I won’t.
It is entirely relevant because you’re claiming their motivation was to not have her die. If they didn’t want to have her die, they just write her not dying.
Yeah, and Sylvanas is undead. We even saw in the Death Knight starting zone where they’d bring you back as well. So again, the extra restriction is new, by if anything it is a diminished version of their previously established powers.
I think you’re being pedantic here, but I can rephrase as ‘altering the focus of her vengeance from Arthas to someone else’ if you really want. With the twist of having a better reason to avoid death in an extreme way.
The deaths being entirely irrelevant, yeah.
It still isn’t an ad hominem, that’s just a disagreement on whether or not you’re using it right.
Depends on where that actually was. But Medvih randomly came back before they added Aegywnn later resurrecting him, Jin’do clawed back from the dead. Nefarion and Onyxia both came back from the dead. Lei-shen. Teron Gorefied. The Elementals and (supposedly) the Old Gods. Entities like Cenarus and the Wild Gods. And as noted, Liches and Demons (including Illidan as a dumb addition) count because those are narratively given ways of avoid death when killed.
Adding ‘from WoW hell’ is a meaningless distinction, these are all characters who have shown the ability to come back from the dead instead of spending eternity in their respective afterlives.
Well that was something established in Lore from the getgo and is a trait of being a Lich, so you’re right that isn’t plot armor.
However, this is plot armor as it was established very late in WC’s story and was essentially used explicity as a device to bring back dead characters so that we actually have a burning Legion to fight by the time of the Legion expansion. This is textbook plot armor.
And yeah, I have to pop in and side with Treng here, cuz Sylvanas’s Valkyrie are definitely plot armor. I mean, the only reason they were introduced into the story is to literally give Sylvanas what is the equivalent of 1-ups anytime she gets killed.
Maybe. It has been a staple of Warcraft for some time, at the very least. A fair bit has changed from back then that as much relates to the overall story direction as well. I’m more willing to say the idea of Argus is plot armor.
I think their specific and more relevant story purpose has been to serve as a means of creating more Forsaken. And helping further the idea of the Forsaken being in kind of an existential crisis. Again, since their introduction, having established their ability to bring back the dead and undead. Unless the claim is that their entire creation in the lore is supposedly for her sake, which seems even more of a reach.
Yeah sorry. A group of beings who died once already and exist on unnaturally in a constant state of suffering. Just dont see it as an ‘ethnic’ group. But on the note of virtue signaling saying the group is “ethnic cleansing” sounds a lot better and helps ones argument more than “group cleansing the unnatural undead remains of their former people”.
There are plenty of ways to talk about how the scarlet crusade is evil because well they are. Saying its ethnic cleansing is a little nonsensical.
Yeah, since WoD, lol, where they were so devoid of content, they needed to make up a way to bring back Archimonde to be the final boss. And even THEN they’re still not even sure about whether we killed him or not in WoD, so he’s pretty much just dead until they need to use him again.
According to the Battle for Andorhol, Sylvanas already has hundreds of lesser Val’kyr to make new Forsaken.
I wouldn’t say that their entire creation was to be plot armor, but their explicit desire to help Sylvanas so that the can escape the tedium of being confined to Northrend by Bolvar. As Sylvanas was at the frozen throne, as she was trying to kill herself, and as she was about to enter the afterlife. They were just conviniently there to bail Sylvanas out of death and to create a pact that would give her additional lives. Yeah, I’d say that’s some really convinient plot armor. And don’t get me started with all these Reaper powers Sylvanas has now…
Doesn’t bother me either way. I’m just not sure what basis would you claim they aren’t an ethnic group under the definition? It is a rather broad term.
Google relating to a population subgroup (within a larger or dominant national or cultural group) with a common national or cultural tradition.
Merriam-Webster of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background.
Dictionary .com pertaining to or characteristic of a people, especially a group (ethnic group) sharing a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like.
Wikipedia. An ethnic group or an ethnicity is a category of people who identify with each other based on similarities such as common ancestry, language, history, society, culture or nation.
I would call it sensationalizing, not virtue signaling.
It was a thing since at least Burning Crusade. I can’t remember if there were Vanilla mentions.
And yet getting more/having stronger ones, is necessary as of Dark Mirror and Before the Storm.
Just sounds like a plot point incorporating present elements. I will grant the entire idea of her dying to realize she didn’t want to go to hell is a bit ham fisted. And a realization they could have as easily had without dying.
She crossed from ‘morally gray’ to evil a pretty long while ago. As long as the Horde bends over and does whatever evil thing she orders it’s morally gray, but not her.
Burn the witch and paint your face with her ashes I say. It doesn’t have to be Saurfang (given his age I’m not sure he’d take the position anyway), but get someone else in the chair who won’t murder thousands of innocent people because one person annoyed her by daring to express pity for the monster she’s become.
Your post literally ended with “lol idiots.” You admitted in the thread that you made the post with the intention to make people mad.
You were both RPing AND trolling in the post. That, fiend, is why your post got deleted. As Carmaggedon put it, it was a “flagrant troll post.” We all saw it. We all know what you are.
Not sure what you’re trying to say or why this subpar reply took you four minutes, but alright.
What you said WAS RPing. Your post boiled down to “haha dumb elves, tree burn.” It was no kind of constructive post, and you admitted you made it just to provoke people to anger. Any and all kind of rebuttals you dismissed with childish quips. Now you’re making BS political comparisons like a good little troll.
By the way, Anyaceltica? The one you linked with the “Stop RPing in the Story Forums” post? Yeah, she was also in there calling you out.
Get on your Forsaken main, and get off my Story Forums.