What are you on about, sylvanas wanted revenge on arthas, she did infact kill herself, she planned to do it, and if he died at the wrathgate would have, but he didnt die so she didnt kill herself, and blamed the event on vari why? Cause she still wanted revenge lol and she wasnt gonna stop till arthas was dead.
Wanting Arthas dead and wanting to off herself to free herself from this curse of undeath and finally rest in peace does not remove her from her ability to have critical, coherent thought.
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thought of what her planed worked other than the fact that arthas didnt die, if she told thrall about it, you think he would have agreed to such a weapon? Garrosh of all people banned the plague, it would have even less of a chance with thrall.
You’re ridiculous if you think Thrall would turn away a weapon that he could point at the Lich King. The Horde utilized Warlocks, for Pete’s sake. An airborn acid that melts its target and scorches the earth is about as discriminate as a wild fire blasted by any magi under his command, or called upon by any shaman at the Horde’s disposal. It’s not so hard of a sell to someone with intellect like Thrall.
This is the ‘sink or swim’ point of the war. Garrosh banned the blight after the events of the Wrathgate, generally loathed the Forsaken and had a warrior’s sense of pride that forbade anything that could be even be seen as cowardly.
Garrosh was armed with knowledge that no-one had yet and was not a critical thinker. He was brute force personified.
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No, there have been multiple people writing Sylvanas. Just for a start and for those who are confirmed:
- Chris Metzen, who originally created the character in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
- Alex Afrasiabi (source: his comment about how he’s been writing her since 2006)
- Steve Danuser (author of “Dark Mirror”)
- Dave Kosak (author of “Edge of Night”)
- Sarah Pine (author of “In the Shadow of the Sun,” which is the source for Sylvanas strongarming Lor’themar into committing troops to Northrend)
- Christie Golden (author of Arthas, War Crimes, Before the Storm, and Three Sisters)
There are probably other staff members who have written her in various questlines or dungeons.
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I greatly appreciate the sensible viewpoints brought up in this thread, but…
I mean wow. Just. Just everything about what you’ve said.
Let me be perfectly clear: have a dissenting opinion in a discussion can be a dangerous thing, but if you have a strong claim or reason to back your points, then it can be helpful in either confirming or rejecting the thoughts of the other commentators you are contradicting.
Unfortunately, in the sea of double-posting in this thread that you seem to have been doing, you really haven’t crafted much of a defensible argument as to why Sylvanas’ story doesn’t have any retcons. Because it does.
The only point I’ve seen you make is a comment by one of the authors that is a retcon of the events at Wrathgate. Crafting the blight is one thing- dispatching it upon your own “allies” and then going on to assault your own capital is a horrendously stupid idea for someone as conniving as Sylvanas. As I said in my OP- these are retcons, and retcons are bad.
This actually puts a lot of my qualms into a different perspective. It certainly explains why there are so many inconsistencies, but if you’re going to be carrying on the work of Ol’ Metzen (who honestly I miss beyond words, but that’s a different discussion), and certainly if you’re continuing on after a ridiculously long chain of writers, the onus is on the author to ensure the continuity is maintained in a logical, coherent manner.
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This feels almost like a research project, but I wonder if it would be possible to pinpoint the place where everything went “off the rails” so to speak.
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I was sort of trying to do that in another thread. I don’t think consensus was reached, though.
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It’s certainly possible, given the proper time investment, but the real issue at the end of the day is that as Anu’brak would say, What’s done is done. Lazy writing has absolutely come at the consequence of losing much of Warcraft’s prior integrity, and I highly doubt at this stage whoever the current writing staff are will be replaced by anybody. Even that would be a bandaid solution, because new writers would still need to satisfactorily explain the poppycock events leading up to and concluding the Fourth War.
Suddenly I’m imagining the Bronze Dragonflight retconning the entire thing because of how bad it was.
Edit: I want to mention something, although it is slightly off-topic. I don’t mind the idea of a Fourth War. Obviously themes of war and conflict are central to a great deal of Warcraft’s narrative, even though the methods with which they are introduced can be… ahem. Trying, at best. However, the resulting drama from trying to pick up the pieces after said war has been surprisingly satisfying to explore in a roleplaying sense. I’m an altaholic, and one of my characters is a Paladin that I brought to the recent Wanderer’s Festival, where he had a pretty powerful heart-to-heart with an Alliance Priest.
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I love Sarah Pine’s version dare I say the most. I’ve never fist pumped so much in my life.
I love Dave’s rendition, I really enjoyed how persistence she was at wanting to kill herself.
Steve Danuser did awesome! I like his depiction of living Sylvanas too, and his story of Sylvanas finding Blightcaller was heartfelt.
I love Christie’s early Sylvanas; she was very pragmatic, and pretty much dripped sauce. “I know what orders I gave!..general”
I really like the dark pragmatic intelligent Sylvanas. I’ve grown weary with over the top mustache twirl Sylvanas, killing hope was my pinpoint. What in the world does that even mean?
While I do dislike Steve Danusers constant push for Sylvanas to be waifu no.1 in the universe with all the senseless retcons. I did enjoy reading Dark Mirror.
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His rendition was an attempt to find a way to make her use of the Valkyr become sympathetic(he is a huge Fan of Sylvanas after all). Without his Short Story the Valkyr raising the dead would appear to be Sylvanas committing mustache twirling acts of Villainy for no reason just like BfA!
The Novel and Short Story Writers have been trying to make Afrasiabi’s Mustache Twirling Supervillain into someone sympathetic throughout all of WoW Afrasiabi of course has finally got the supervillain he wants for Shadowlands!
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Umm is it? When he writes as garrosh of all people being oppose to her, its like a evil beyond hitler.
I’m not exactly sure who you’re replying to, but someone not liking Sylvanas is nothing new. Especially Garrosh, who in spite of some of the honorable traits he displayed (chiefly in the conclusion to the Stonetalon quests), obviously despised the undead for presumably the same reason most other people despise the undead- that being that they’re undead.
The wrathgate made a lot of people angry at the forsaken for even inventing the blight. Garrosh would later say to Sylvanas that she cannot use it during the war in gilneas, but she did anyway.
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His honorable traits were written by Afrasiabi who expected Garrosh to end up as a good guy. Afrasiabi wanted Garrosh as the good guy while Kosak wanted Sylvanas as the good guy!
Of course since Kosak at the time was in charge of the new Zones while Afrasiabi was in charge of revamped Zones and the New Races’ starting experiences and Metzen(who saw Garrosh as a mindless brute) was in control over the overall Lore Garrosh ended up being the Bad Guy for the next Expansion MoP.
Of course once Kosak was sent to Hearthstone and Metzen was gone Afrasiabi was able to get the Sylvanas he wanted since he was now in charge of all Lore including the stuff that Kosak and Metzen were in control of.
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Garrosh wasn’t really a Godwin’s Law hazard at that point in the story. More Attila the Hun.
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She authorized experimentation on people. That was during Vanilla.
In Cata she advanced to using biological weapons, invading neighboring countries, and forcibly raising people into undeath. Even Garrosh calls her out it and she replies the only difference between her and The Lich King was she was a member of the Horde and doing it for the Horde.
In BFA she advances into full blown genocide. At this point she has reached levels that only Gul’dan, Blackhand, and Arthas has reached among playable character races.
She has been evil and has been escalating her evil every few x-pacs.
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Hey Julia, I think you’re missing Ner’zhul, who sent Arthas on his dark path before becoming one with him as the Lich King, up until Arthas was slain and Ner’zhul was trapped in the Frozen Throne again by Bolvar. But now that the Helm has been destroyed, I think his powers were released from the helm and sent out of control to tear open the rift to the Shadowlands. The gem is still intact though, so he could still be around, but not kicking again until the Helm is repaired by the Forge of Domination. I think when he comes back though, he would share how he and Sylvanas could be similar in how they both fell and became genocidal.
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You are correct. I did forget Ner’zhul.