Survival, I guess they are done with us?

So… generally a quite awesome post by Nimox just now. Some changes that have been largely asked for for sure.

But, not trying to compare classes or specs too much but… This is like the 3rd or 4th week where Survival has been more or less untouched. Are Blizzard really happy with the state of Survival? I get that Survival got a lot of the attention early but I mean… the spec was so frakking bad it was a joke. To make it halfway decent and then just 100% dropping it for a month feels very unwarranted.
Also, I can’t (as a Survival main) get past the feeling that a lot of what the BM and MM have been asked for have been given. While Survival certainly have improved but it’s mainly been improved upon the already very clearly set path that Blizzard wants it to go, almost none of the community feedback has been heard here. In contrast to a lot of changes to the class/BM/MM trees.

Please, don’t tell me you consider SV spec/tree done? Because even after all those changes it’s still the absolute bottom feeder of specs, especially since feral got some quite awesome changes. It’s still filled with filler talents that cost way too much (the cost bloat is a hunter problem overall for sure) and the specs 2 very clear generic paths are very lackluster and lead to rather boring gameplay.


Currently its still bugged so im still not sure how good, deadly duo, Quick Shot, and fury of the eagle actually is since pheromone bomb is bugged

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From what I have been tracking and paying attention to in the forums and elsewhere. I truly believe blizz has zero clues about what to do with survival.

I cant put my finger on exactly what it is, but it just seems that way to me with how discombobulated it is.


They gave SV same treatment as BM got in the last patch of BfA, over power it than just leave it to die next expansion. Be glad it had that one shinning patch that brought it out from under that rock cause it right back under it again.


as it should. a melee spec within the hunter class should not be the most powerful spec. its a joke. its a novelity spec. and a bad one at that. bm should of been the melee spec if there ever had to be one as it fulfills the fantasy and lore and current in game melee bm hunter npc’s. beastlord darmac and rexxar both of whom are melee BM hunters.

but regardless of what blizzard chooses to do with survival it should be the bottom of the 3 specs. no true hunter thats been in this class since the game inception should be forced to play melee in a RANGED CLASS to fulfill a meta.

melee survival should of went the way of gladiator stance in the warrior class. it should of just been some side off spec for people that want to harpoon around and drop bombs from trees onto lower level players leveling. deleting the most polished and smoothest spec ever created for this melee playstyle was hands down the worst decision blizzard has ever made for any class since the games release. the numbers have proved this. and even though it is the most powerful overbuffed spec by far it is still the least played and that tells you everything you need to know about its popularity.


Recently, I have had a little time to get on the PTR and test out some of the specs. While they are at lvl 60, you still get a strong understanding and feeling where the spec stands, its identity, and whether or not the playstyle is going to fit you moving forward. Many of the specs, such as DH, look really fun but then they don’t click for some reason. Other classes, like fire and frost mages, are smooth and flow, but they are the same as they have always been and nothing really has changed. What you see is what you will always get out of them. For them, its about tuning. Then there are the sleeper specs like ret pally AOE where you are like ehhhhh but then you start hitting targets and your like ohhhhh. Then there are the druid dps specs where feral, after multiple tree reworks has become to fluid and fun that if everything plays out they really could be a stout contender for content. Balance has a few hiccups that need smoothed out but overall they are put together.
Then there are the hunter specs, more specifically, survival. It really only takes one glance to know that blizz has no idea what they are doing with the spec. You attempt to create a build but you reset your points 3-4 times before you admit you just HAVE to take a couple of talents. Then you realize that there are two separate cds for two seperate playstyles with no new capstones. But you try to hit some dummies and at first you think, hey this isnt so bad, but then you remember your still wearing your 4 piece and leggos. You take them off and then reality hits… This spec is not good. At all. 10 mins later your logging off, questioning the very nature of what blizz does for the hours upon hours they spend at work.


If they let us change talents in M+ or at least change between saved presets I wouldn’t say we have much problems. Single target damage is solid, but you have to spec into ST, same for AOE. So if they let us change between talents in M+ normally without any restriction we should be fine.

At least in beta testing I was able to change between talents non stop. It takes 3 longer to pull but I kept switching between my AOe and ST talents. M+ is the biggest question

I sense Bepples and Ghorak third form. You don’t like SV hunter , just avoid SV hunter posts.

Don’t be a troll brother. I don’t mean in game as character I mean as person. Most polished spec? Are you kidding me now? Because it has amazing AOE in Cata you call it most polished spec? A spec that used shadow damage as regular hunter? We are hunters not shadow hunters.


it sucked in cata. i only got polished and perfected around 5.4 mop. then as wod released they slowly started to break it apart up until its deletion in legion. even when it was nerfed and underpowered it will still the most played spec in its hayday. cant say the same for melee survival.

i am not here to bash it because i am not one of this 1 spec players. i play every class and every spec in game except melee survival because it has no flow, its boring, its makes no sense fantasy wise and it dont belong in the hunter class.

i am here to help it and anyone that played ranged survival during its polished years will tell you the same. just revert it or delete it and put it out of its misery because it didnt go anywhere without having a ton of buffs. and even with a ton of buffs its still the bottom of “played” specs.

there is really nothing else that can be done with this spec. everything has been tried and it all failed. the solution is simple. its just a pride thing on blizzards part as to why this joke is continuing.

and say what you will about bepples and ghorak. at least they have good taste and know whats good for the hunter class.


Everyone has its own opinion. For me the most boring spec is BM. You don’t need keyboard for that spec just mouse with 2 buttons on side and that it. MM hunter for me is OK I can get into pure sniper spec. SV is more fun than both of them together. You fight side by side with your pet, you stuff you can make in nature like try survival. Shadow arrow was worst addition to hunters. Seriously shadow hunter lol. Shadow hunters should be spec on its own.

I played SV since in MOP especially in WoD. And back in EU during Throne of thunder we had 4 SV hunters in guild. The rest was BM and MM. in WoD I was only SV hunter in guild. SV hunter was nothing special back then. I’t didn’t had that “survival” feel. It was just another ranged dot class. It reminds me on affliction lock during legion. You put your normal dots and cast unstable affliction when you get shards. Same with SV keep BA and SS on target, and use explosive shot when it procs or it’s ready.

Bepples and Ghorak are jokes on forums and even on hunter discord. I didn’t believe it until I saw it with my eyes.

But you saw they made SV meta choice. Not because they love it , but because it can deal nice damage. Which brings to my next point , every spec is playable only when it’s performing well. There is guild that will let you raid with them no matter what you play. But that is not measurement.

Bm was still fairly decent in SL, the only tier it was seriously left behind was 9.2 and only in aoe situations

They haven’t had any clue what to do with it for a very long time. Since going melee, in fact. There was never a concrete plan when it came to melee Survival. Everything about the history of that spec after Legion makes sense once one accepts this fact.

This isn’t true. SV was very good in Cata and in fact had the same general design it had in MoP. It was very popular throughout both expansions.

SV did drop to dead last in raid representation in 6.2 WoD due to how thoroughly the spec was gutted and behind everything else, but it remained popular in PvP; this is because most of the problem lay with how SV interacted with the borrowed powers in that patch (legendary ring, tier set) as well as the removal of the initial tick of Serpent Sting.

SV does see a lot of play right now, but way less than you would expect given the sheer degree of performance advantage. There are only 10% more SV Hunters in M+ than BM Hunters despite SV being a lot better performing. I don’t think ranged SV ever had the sort of numerical superiority melee SV has right now yet ranged SV would see tiers where it had several times the representation of the other specs.

So the only way they can make melee SV “popular” is by bribing people to play it with extreme numerical overtuning, which is chronically unhealthy for the game.

You can do this as BM too BTW. I don’t know if you noticed but since 2012 we can use ranged weapons in melee range. So we really did not need a “melee BM” spec in the same class when we already just have BM just so melee roleplayers could get their fix. SV should focus on a unique approach to ranged weapons like it used to because melee is already thoroughly overdone in this game.

I’m not sure why you get so hung up on this. Black Arrow existed because a) we needed a way to get Lock and Load without having to rely on traps and b) it’s a cool ability from Warcraft III. That’s just it. The class also has Arcane Shot which doesn’t make so much sense; it’s just a nostalgia thing. If it was such an issue they could just rebrand it to a venom attack like “Super Serpent Sting” or even an electric-themed attacks. You don’t remake entire specs just because you think some abilities don’t make aesthetic sense. You just redo the aesthetics of those abilities; just like how Dire Frenzy became Barbed Shot.

If your Hunters were playing MM in MoP they were clueless.

You either had a weirdly exceptional experience, you’re misremembering, or you’re lying. I’m not sure why you think your alleged anecdotal experience matters to me here. The data does not lie, and the fact of the matter is SV was the highest representation Hunter spec in MoP. You like anecdotal evidence? Every Hunter in my guild was SV; as was the fact for every raiding guild on my server. I knew a couple who would play BM for a fight here and there but SV was the ranged spec. I don’t expect you to believe me just as I don’t believe you, but the difference is the data is on my side.

What, so it’s better to turn it into yet another physical melee spec to add to the billion different approaches to physical melee we already have? That sounds more unique to being one of the only ranged weapon users in the game to you? Use your brain.

How ever does rushing into the vastly more dangerous melee range to throw bombs at your own feet and whirlwind a spear around like an Arms Warrior have that “survival” feel to you?

What do you think most people think of melee Survival? You should broaden your perspective.


You’re listening to preach and you wanna talk about hunters? I get your hate Bepples but dude. You are stuck in your melee SV hate that you can’t see past your screen.

I get it it was better to some people, and now there is some that people like it. Smaller audience? sure but who cares. You and preach, and some basement dwellers on YouTube and twitch. They will still keep it as melee SV. You and preach can go and “Danc” together. If they change it back to ranged people will still play it, and ofc there will be some players upset. It will be probably some forum posts for some time and that’s it. Have you tried to make your own game? Or maybe you should invest in blizzard? Why not apply for lead designer position?


Preach is very knowledgable about Hunters and he has mostly well-informed takes about the game. He is not the only one who’s said things like this. Here’s another:

The point is: if you’re under the impression that it’s only a handful of grumpy people on the forums who don’t like melee Survival with the rest of the community being generally supportive of it, you’re mistaken. Survival does not have a good reputation with the community. Keeping it at overpowered status for a couple seasons won’t fix that. Have you seen the reception the spec has been getting on Dragonflight beta?

Can’t believe we agree on something.

Regards on Preach on other guys in videos. Their knowledge is their opinion that they express in a bubble. Preach is M0r*n there is no one equal to him.

Since you went and dragged me into this…

Is there a particular reason as to why you’re not posting from your Rogue(Sinexes) anymore?

Considering your post history on your rogue, and how you love spending time trolling Bepples, and talking down to people in general, I’m not putting much stock in what your opinion is. Example, Example 2

…you really do like to do the whole “personal attacks” thing, don’t you?

And yes, both that mage you’re posting on now, and the rogue Sinexes are your characters. A quick look at your collections tab is enough to see that this is the case.


I can’t for some reason. Half of my toons is missing so I’m waiting for ticket to be resolved

I don’t troll but I don’t take lvl 10 account serious. Usually behind lvl 10 character is someone who is afraid to show his real account, loves to troll in case it gets reported so no loss there. If this is your second account then why are you so cheap?

Like I told you before when you made this comment on your rogue, I’m a EU player. I can’t post from my regular characters on here.


Make a post on EU forums please

Yikes. He’s the one that set up a WoD private server account just to prove that MM and SV had the same talents because he thought this was some sort of gotcha and didn’t understand that talent tiers weren’t spec-specific for any class back then.