Not a win win in my eyes. I’m the kind of player that will enjoy the challenge but if the payoff is nothing then there’s no point to me. For instance the Mage Tower. I did it the first day it came out and the reward for doing it was an exclusive artifact skin. There are exclusives for pushing in Arena and RBGs to certain levels which justifies the reasoning for me to make the push to begin with.
In PvE, there are no rewards for making pushes. Getting a rectangle in my achievement tab that says “Huraah! You did it” is not enticing to me. If I can get geared up from M+ instead of having to wipe +200 times on a boss then I start to lose interest. And if there’s no reason to do M+ past a 10 then my interest falls even more. Then if I can get a Mythic ilvl piece from doing an invasion then I’m just not interested in playing at that point.
Your first line is really my point too; There are many different kinds of players all with different goals. My point is that other players need for artificial superiority through gear does nothing to help the game. To address your second point, I’d also cited that sometimes players may want to try harder content, but are simply not skilled enough. this “boost” from better gear could help them out to this end. Gear shouldn’t be a “privilege” that only the upper echelon should have access to.
I appreciate this situation too; but think macroscopically here: The next expansion, or heck even the next raid tier, that gear you got is now “worthless” to the bleeding edge seekers. It will be replaced and forgotten, but your achievements like “ahead of the curve” will remain.
And personally for me, that’s another problem that I kind of have with the game. I don’t like the patch/expansion “reset” that we have to constantly do. It kind of gets old after a while to be honest and one of the saving graces of that has been transmog. Which I’m not saying I don’t want it to be, but the previous expansions gear is pretty much up for grab.
I don’t want to have to run around linking thinks like AOTC or Cutting Edge. Nor is my goal to sit AFK in the main hub and have people inspect me. I personally just don’t feel validated for putting in effort in BFA.
I pushed in this season of arena because I wanted the Elite set.
I did the Mage Tower because I wanted the exclusive artifact skin.
I did the challenge modes because I wanted to exclusive weapons and armor.
I killed Mythic G’huun because I wanted the Cutting Edge achievement.
Ugh. That last one just doesn’t make sense to me. It’s far different from the other aspects of the game and part of the reason I stopped trying to make pushes in raiding. Just not really worth the time.
Gear/achieves/mounts used to matter but then they started catering more to the casual side of the game that weren’t capable or didn’t put in the time/effort to reach the higher end content. It doesn’t take much to be in a mythic clearing guild these days as I only raid 8 hrs a week on a 2 day schedule and almost have Jaina down.
I understand some people may not want to invest that amount of time minimal as it is but I don’t think you should be rewarded the same as those that do just because you feel since you’re paying for the game you should have easier access to things that others have put a lot more time/effort into acquiring.
As far as the welfare gear I couldn’t care less, just because everyone’s going to get handed out a basic 430 set doesn’t mean that’ll affect anything.
A player that only ever progs through normal and heroic content will still be in normal and heroic content even with said gear. The only thing about gear that irritates me is the titanforging system, it should be impossible to get mythic/capped gear outside of mythic content. Put a cap on it or remove the titanforging system altogether.
The warforging portion isn’t as bad but still doing over 65+ heroic garrosh kills and only ever seeing your weapon warforge once the last week of the expansion can be irritating.
If there wasn’t a skill gap in games then why would they make content more challenging, they may as well get rid of norm/heroic/mythic content to suit the casual player base because it’s too difficult/time consuming to actually improve themselves to do the higher end content.
Just because there’s a mythic difficulty doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it, if your skill is only up to a normal/heroic standard then stay content with it.
I don’t know how else to voice my self on that stupid comment. If we were playing a first person shooter you’d be asking for aimbot or something because you suck and can’t beat other players.
But like I said in my other post just because you’re getting free/effortless gear no matter how skilled you’re won’t mean anything when it comes to progressing higher content.
Right, but getting gear through difficult content is diminished when the same gear can be acquired by doing a brainless WQ that can be done with solo play in 5 minutes.
If raids don’t entice players to overcome them with better gear, then you’re going to see a lot less people raid.
The whole model of difficult content is supposed to be better rewards. When you start removing those rewards you’ll start seeing less and less people partake in them. Blizzard seems to know this - hence why Mythic Raids award higher gear than LFR.
I firmly believe that the catch up mechanics they give players is not bad. And someone who raids Mythic gear or even a player who raids Heroic will be geared a lot faster with BiS than someone who does catch up mechanics.
Yeah, at this stage of the game, Heroic tier content isn’t really worth it for new players who are looking to gear up. But come 8.2 when the new raid comes out, if you want 430 ilvl as quick as possible, then you’ll want to do the harder content.
To be honest even if you gave the entire casual base 425 pieces of gear right now, they still wouldn’t be able to clear mythic raids. Literally every top guild that clears a mythic raid never has bis gear when they do either.
But I still don’t agree that you should be given end game gear for doing casual game play when mythic raiders actually have the skill set, they put in the time/effort to find a guild/group and they’re competent enough to work as a team to down difficult content.
Mythic + spamming has kind of ruined gear in my opinion. It doesn’t matter as much anymore like it did back in vanilla. You used to go months without getting an ugprade, now you do 35 minutes of world quests and you get 4 pieces of loot then you complain about it not being 425 like it was that difficult to complete.
You will never group or play with these skilless players so their gear will not affect your play time - So, why do you care how they spend their $15 worth of playtime or what kind of loot they get?
I think that’s a fair way to approach this. I do think the pendulum may have swung too far towards gearing the lowest common the denominator though. When the lowest tier of content gives players enough gear that LFR, Normal, most of heroic, and anything below a +10 yields downgrades… That’s where I start to question whether this system is really helping them.
I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve seen a player in 400+ gear pull 6-7k dps and bursting up to 15k dps. That’s the equivalent of trying to melee an enemy with a bazooka rather than finding the trigger and firing it.
In my opinion, such a player should be encountering resistance to cause them to fail well before they quite literally almost out gear a heroic raid.
I get that, but on the flip side… gear shouldn’t be so ubiquitous that the masses have little to progress their character through. As it is now… the ONLY players that get set apart are those at the truly cutting edge of content. And even those don’t get set apart by much. I’m not sure why we have so many variants of difficulty, yet very little separating them in terms of rewards. I’d rather we reduce the number of difficulties, but make the distinctions between them significant.
This is getting more moronic as it goes on, if people get the same reward for doing world quests as a mythic raider does then why would they bother doing a mythic raid? What reward do they get other than some stupid achievement?
Now there are people that care about achievements, I personally don’t unless there’s a mount attached to it. But like I said earlier even if you gave the entire player base the same ilvl gear they’ll still be in the same difficulty as they were prior.
As it was said in another forum thread, going to repost here again for that person:
Check that out again. Gear does not exist in a vacuum. If a person can get BiS max iLvl gear from pressing a button, then that impacts the entire playerbase and game itself.
MMO’s will not succeed when they make gear easier and easier to obtain. Every game needs challenge for the rewards. If you remove the challenge then the rewards mean less and the game is diminished.
Why is it hard to understand that it’s about putting in several hours a week and working with a team to down difficult content can yield the same reward as doing an Invasion?
Why bother playing the game to your fullest potential to clear mythic raid content for no reward that puts you above the rest that either one can’t or won’t put in the same amount of time/effort or two suck bad enough that they’d never be able to until they try and improve themselves.
But that quote is perfect really… What difference does gear that someone else has, or how they got it affect your gameplay? Simply because to “worked harder” for it? It’s a game… You are playing with your friends, teammates, etc. The ease of access does not diminish anything, depending on your goal. If your goal is “having” gear or your goal is “earning” gear you will do the content the way you want or you won’t play.
Let me be frank, if the crappiest player in the game was given out the same gear that I acquired after putting in hundreds of hours, finding a guild, getting better at my class, researching fights, min maxing everything I could possibly do to make my guilds run succeed.
And all the crappy player has to do is log in for 35 minutes, do all of the emissary caches and get the same stuff I probably wouldn’t play.
That’s the only defining thing between casual and hardcore players is gear/achievements/mounts. Who cares about achievements, that gets you past the door. Gear doesn’t matter as much anymore but what other reward do players receive for putting in more time and effort than the casual player.
Then here’s a solution: Do the “free, effortless” tasks for 35 minutes, then use that gear to do the Hardcore Mythic content for the enjoyment of that? problem solved.