They have given us tools to seek out and group with players of similar mindsets that allow people to take it easier in dungeons, no?
3 Likes
I said 2-3 pack, not mob.
And if that’s too low then we can bump that up to 4-5. Basically what I’m concerned with is that tanks who are not drastically overgeared for the dungeon should be discouraged from running every pack onto the next boss with complete indifference to their team. If a well grouped pull off all mobs onto the next boss when the whole group is there to help, that may be okay. It’s just not okay to have your DH tank use every speed boost to the next boss pulling everything along the way with their team a good 20 seconds away without any consequences. If they would die doing that, but would be able to pull it off with their healer and DPS in tow, that would be far better in terms of everyone’s experience.
1 Like
That’s how it is and doubt it will change anytime soon.
The current mind set is a combination of “Ain’t nobody got time for that” and "must go faster, must go faster, go go go go!
If it’s packs, then thats how it is now. Certain places you can go 4-5, but most are 2-3. So no change happens then.
That’s happened since the beginning of tanking. Some tank thinks they are better than everyone and can mass pull.
They either get kicked or rage quit. Nerfing power won’t change that. It’s also not that common either.
If they can hold it, it’s not a problem. If they fail, the group usually lets them have it for being silly.
And depending on their attitude, they get kicked.
I’ve done too many dungeons already this xpac and can say the bad speed runner doesn’t last in groups.
So it’s not a power problem. It’s a mindset problem. Which leads to hurting the majority because of a few bad apples, which blizz already does to us when we see people abuse mechanics or show the insane max something can hit in a perfect scenario.
i had this problem when i was a healer i cant catch up to the tank how fast hes going. i get this alot if ur a dps u going FEEL like tank is slow but u want pull more… if ur a tank u get feeling ur team telling you to “PULL MORE” phase how these people talk to the tank like that… but it depend on the team ur going with it suck like real life job u know?
that why m+ existed lol
Tone deaf. Op didn’t even state it was M+. In heroics or time walking when many are still lvling gearing up or learning their class for the bracket they are in it matters. A tank in full mythic gear rushing through flexing while their healer isnt at the same ilvl or potentially the same lvl its detrimental to the group. Its comical how mad and entitled they are when they die. Blaming and crapping on healers because they cant take a second to look at the group they are in. Its no secret blizz cant scale things properly. Its also super annoying as a tank when dps run ahead pulling for the same reason. Not taking into account that maybe the tank is waiting for a cd/skill to reset before adding another pack to the pull to make sure there are no stray mobs, keeping everything grouped, seeing what the healer/dps are capable of handling, etc. Maybe take a step back and actually wait and see how they approach big/milti pulls. This applies on M+ too
2 Likes
If I don’t speed run then people pull for me. I literally have to beat the DPS at being there and threat. I’m not battling the mobs I’m battling my own group.
You wanna blame someone, blame the DPS.
2 Likes
You and three friends can just sit at the entrance and have a tea party and I will heal, tank and DPS. I don’t see the problem in that.
Let the DPS die. They want to pull it, they can tank it too. Just keep your heals alive, and you’ll be fine. Go at your pace. DPS seem to forget, tank and healer set the pace. Not them.
2 Likes
Hard pass. Dungeons aren’t fun they are just a stepping stone to get gear. That’s why noone wants to lollygag around and take 3 hours to do them.
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I’m sorry if this was mentioned before but 314 comments is a lot to read. I’ve seen valid points from both sides. No one should be told how they have to play a game as open ended as WoW. The fault lies neither with Blizzard, nor the player base.
Just my suggestion, but in dungeon finder an option for speed running groups should be added, or alternativly, and option for a more relaxed group. You can also create a group for options like this, but it would seem that adding the option to the dungeon finder would make it easier to find.
5 Likes
This causes more problems than it solves and makes enemies.
Not interested in wack jobs doing weird crap on their 5th alt anymore lol it’s just easier to drag everyone including all the DPS at a pace faster than they can deal with by literally pre pulling packs after my aoe cds freshen up.
As prot when shockwave is up I will burst 12k DPS with DPS trinks on throughout the first 10 sec of a new pack. I don’t even run vig anymore and used that talent point for slightly more DPS lol. I’ll just beat them at their own game and watch them lose DPS as I charge from pack to pack waiting for the perfect uptime windows to do it.
“…and then everybody clapped.”
Bro, this didn’t happen so much that it unhappened other things that had.
Just… Stop.
The reason people speed-run through content is because, “They can.” Back in original BC, I remember, “Speed Clearing” heroics all the time. We did it because we had good gear and could blitz the mobs.
And once every tank got the prot pally treatment (Wrath pre-patch) it was all over. From then on we were running fast.
We move at the pace that our survivability/dps allows. If things are dying in seconds and the tank is a juggernaut, then we move.
2 Likes
Personally, I want them to expand on mega dungeons. Give us more than one per expansion, give us one per patch. M+ can be fun, but a long, essentially 5-person raid is also fun in it’s own way, as a sort of bridge between M+ and raiding.
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I would love to have more mega dungeons but I fear blizz simply can’t keep up that pace
Dawn wasn’t even close to this though.
I want a mega dungeon that releases along side of a raid at the beginning of the tier that takes a couple weeks to clear. Dawn took an hour and a half the first night.
Literally have the 4 difficulties on launch. “Lfr” would be the queue, normal would be dawn now doable at like 420, heroic 430, mythic 440.
This could also supplement the “I get ce 6 months into the tier and are forced to do m+” raiders as a secondary/tertiary gearing path.
I personally will ALWAYS prefer a speed-run, outside of first time playthroughs… I also don’t have an issue if they wanna take their time, I’m not the tank, I have no say.
I will however leave if it’s too slow, if they aren’t willing to speed up.
It was about 20-25% of the tanks I had at the start of Dragonflight who was pulling this way. I can’t rule out the possibility of me just getting that “lucky” but it was far more than just the random group every once in awhile.
While people could vote to kick, that’s not a very compelling solution especially if the player isn’t being a jerk (most say nothing). You will likely wait longer in the queue for a new tank than it would take to complete the dungeon even if it’s a poor experience. To reiterate my position, I am not saying players should long for a 30 minute dungeon when the tank pulling everything onto the boss will allow for a 10 minute completion. Players are encouraged by the game and social systems (not necessarily Blizzard’s fault) to just suffer through the run and then queue up for another.
For the extreme I am trying to address, it absolutely would change it. Pulling all trash onto bosses before being significantly overgeared is not something that happened in older expansion, even the expansions where tanks could giga-pull. If tanks had to pull with more intention and saw most success with their groups with them, the behavior absolutely would change. And like I said, in many cases I wouldn’t be surprised if many runs went faster if the game nudged tanks into more efficient pulls, even if they didn’t realize that’s what was happening.
The problem is that in most of the groups I’ve had a speed running tank (to the extreme I’m talking about), they don’t fail. They aren’t the one to suffer the consequences, their group is. The tank can solo the mobs and boss they’re pulling, so even if people pull aggro or die during the run, the tank still is able to finish the pull. My suggestion isn’t to put up some artificial barrier or clunky mechanic, but shift the balance of power enough such that tanks also suffer the consequences of pulling without their group. If done well (which I do realize is a big if), I don’t see any reason why this wouldn’t be a benefit to everyone:
- The game would be encouraging tanks to pull more effectively.
- The game allows all players to learn how to best use their abilities because they aren’t running the entire dungeon dealing with mobs coming in 2 by 2.
- An overzealous tank would feel the consequences of his actions which isn’t a guarantee today.
- If an overzealous tank continues to bite off more than the group can chew, the group has an incentive to deal with waiting for a queue to get them a new tank to further encourage tanks to change.
- For many groups, this would be faster because it naturally encourages more effective damage, healing, and cooldown usage. With the full group in tow with efficient pulling leveraging LOS it could still be possible to pull all packs onto the boss anyway.
Perhaps across the entire player base what I’m suggesting would be an impact to the majority for the minority, I am actually not convinced my suggestion wouldn’t result in faster and smoother runs for everyone. But for the groups where the tank is pulling trash onto boss all dungeon without the group agreeing to such pace, the minority is influencing the experience of the majority.
Again, I’m not saying tank power needs to be drastically nerfed, just enough to make it so tanks playing with their group mates is obviously more effective. I unequivocally do not want to go back to single mob pulls with CC on the rest of the group. I also don’t want tanks who are overgeared to be unable to pull everything in one go, that’s perfectly fine. It’s just the absolute extreme on the other side of undergeared tanks being able to do the same that should be reined in a bit.
2 Likes
I think M+ timed dungeons are the fruits of this rushing. Blizzard planted a seed and its starting to grow.
There is no team effort in dungeons anymore its now “Go Go Go Go hurry hurry hurry we must down the last boss as fast as we can.” I’m seeing tanks now wanting to pull the entire dungeon themselves.
There should be a happy medium. I’m fine with speed I actually like going fast. But we shouldn’t leave half your team in the dust ether and locking them out of boss fights.