I think it was the whole timer mythic + dungeons which fostered the whole speed racer thing, right?
it was better than though imo
Why?
Because you definitely have the option not to speed run through current dungeons.
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To each their own. But the point remains the speed running meta that exists in WoW today is not a byproduct of M+. M+ was the formalization of the practice players were already doing.
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The timers are for like 30-40 minutes. Challenge modes back on the day required way quicker times for gold medals.
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idk about for everyone else but the gold timer felt like it was just above the max speed you could possibly run them in
Its super fun when youre the only spec in the instance that doesnt have inst speed like a pally or drood.
There were some turbo nerds running them in like 3-4 minutes
The big problem with this is the majority doesn’t want a slower leveling experience, myself included.
Which most changes would hurt this process.
Closer to vanilla leveling is not the answer. That is insanely painful. We are finally at a point where we can level at our own pace and aren’t forced to spend a days to weeks just to hit max on an alt you want to raid on.
Again, majority do not want to go slower. They also closed the cap on that because people complained about it being too hard for entry.
This feels like the daily quest debate. We had daily wq for years, but people complained they felt obligated to do them every day. So blizz made them twice a weeky. People complained again. Blizz reverted it. People complained again, blizz reverted it back to twice a week. But this was also the noisy minority on the forums.
And now this goes back to the topic. Majority want to go fast. A minority of the population wants something similar to the classic experience on retail.
aint gonna happen. this isnt just a WoW problem. its a culture problem as a whole. every game, every hobby, nearly every social activity is met with this mindset these days. maximum efficiency at all costs. it’s a societal issue. people have a massive sense of urgency. my theory is most people realize the fabric of society is collapsing around them and subconsciously feel they must consume everything as fast as possible before it all goes kaboom. the world is ending, this is just another sign of the times
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i just barely got my golds back then lol idk how people were able to do it that fast. hope they were atleast selling runs with that speed.
as far as dungeons go most people who are still leveling are on their umteenth alt so the goal is to maximize xp. faster you finish the dungeon the more xp per hour your gaining. leveling isnt the focus for most people end game is. last week i was leveling my monk and warrior as a tank and i went as fast as i possibly could. everyone seemed to enjoy it since i kept the same people in groups for a bunch of runs till they had to go.
They could create solo dungeons so that those who want to power thru can do so without harming the experience of other players.
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ya im probably just gonna quit. Blizz doesn’t cater to my audience anymore
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Timer is one thing…on its own it’s no matter and can even be good/fun like bronze drake culling of stratholme…it’s what the timer does to player behavior that’s the problem. And that’s pretty exclusively because of M+, no?
OMG, the irony of this comment is hilarious.
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I’m not suggesting the leveling should be closer to vanilla than retail. I don’t know why every suggestion is treated like it has to go completely to the opposite extreme. It’s just that no tank that isn’t overgeared for a dungeon should be able to solo the dungeon when pulling all mobs into the next boss.
To go one step further, the kind of rushing I’m suggesting to change is NOT the fastest way through the dungeon. The changes I’m suggesting might actually speed these runs up. Running straight to the boss oftentimes results in a conga line of mobs slowly trickling in a couple at a time reducing effective AOE; caster mobs may never even get into the melee group further reducing the DPS. If instead the tank pulled one room into the next and used the doorway to LOS the pack, you would get a higher percentage of effective DPS. Even if you wound up pulling onto the boss after grouping the mobs together, you would maintain the effective damage while attacking the boss.
Nah, like I mentioned earlier, it’s player power levels not m+.
There are people capable of doing +34s in 440 something ilvl and those mobs have like 15* more stats than a m0 or something silly.
If our characters are capable of taking that punishment then clearing a heroic at 380 or whatever is going to still be easy to some.
If tanking 4 groups at once won’t kill you, you’ll probably do it.
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Can you find me telling anyone ever that if they are not playing my way they are not having fun?
You are unable to communicate without making up stuff about others or insulting them.
Ok.
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I never mentioned the extreme. You just did. All I said is closer, which = slower. You even said it yourself. Nerfed gear and power to the point where you pull 2-3 mobs, which is the vanilla experience.
Then it’s a tank scaling issue, not general power issue.
This can be solved by just pulling to the next wall, object or doorway. I don’t see how that fixes anything. Los is los. Casters don’t stop running until they are los. If they are stopping, that sounds like tank failed to get aggro or isn’t losing.
You don’t need to adjust power when it’s a tanking error.
People also want to see big numbers. That’s why SL m+ was so great. You could actually pull big groups and super nuke them down. That is fun.
Going group by group and having to whittle their hp down isn’t fun. That’s why I don’t like higher keys. They just turn into hp sponges. +20 fort weeks, a dungeon is 45 minutes or less, but it can feel like hours due to this.
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I can understand the sentiment that the OP is talking about, but fundamentally I don’t necessarily know what can be done to appease people who want to take it easier in dungeons.
One of the more frustrating experiences I had in FF14 as a new player was dungeons. The tank literally pulled everything until reaching the boss, and I felt very much like I didn’t get to participate.
In WoW, the dungeon design is much better but I can understand how this would frustrate people in the same way. Just not super sure what the answer is.
I do know that Blizzard needs to have a look at design in general regarding dungeons because I’m not certain I’m going to play season three. DF has been an extremely underwhelming continuation of what I’ve been doing since BFA.
Doing M+ til my eyes bleed for ilvl is really losing its luster at this point.