LOL. No, it’s the fault of cheaters such as yourself. I get why you cheat, you had to in order to be competitive in rank. But don’t blame your own actions and the damage you did to your own faction pugs on horde.
This is the main issue here and half the reason the queue times skyrocketed.
If they only changed this one aspect the queues still would have increased. But doing this and killing the premades at the same time?
Clearly, we have someone who cares very deeply about all of this. 
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hell no[quote=“Sideous-grobbulus, post:56, topic:427633”]
It’s your thread. Maybe if you can’t keep up don’t post?
[/quote]
imagine a thread thats 20000 posts long. if ur goin to troll come on, get gud
whoa whoa whoa, ive said it over and over, I LIKE PLAYING THE TURTLES HOLY CRAP DUDE. maybe u should pay attention to the posts lol.
of course i want some attention! im on a ride and watching videos and sstuff will take to much bandwith and ill be staring at a buffer screen lol. GIVE ME ATTENTION! frankly u can tell i NEVER post, look at my post count, it hasnt even cracked 100 yet.
ur in a raid of 40 people, why u screwing over thhe alliance by going solo? /facepalm . and again, other guy made a valid point, blizzard did say it wass their fault for allowing the gate to open when theh teams areent full. ur whole argumennt is broken with blizzard apologizing. everything said in this rant right there? MOOT. one single apoology, OUCH.
ur conflating 2 different things. ur saying when the MIGHTY HORDE SHOWS UP WITH ITS D, we afk cuz pvp happened, no, we dont afk out because pvp happened, we afk out because our goals aree different. the fact that… lol. the alliance best hph is fast games my average is 6min/3300honor. hordes priorities are different, thats their business, turtle AS HARD AS U WANT. im not here complaining about turtle, ive said it many times, i even que with the non tryhards just to play the standard 20minute game, galv, triangle, fwgy,rhgy, i like that game too. said it multiple times now.
uhhhh what ur not getting is thats not pvp dude. its pvevp. and in this case, thhe warmasters pose a far bigger threat than the horde will ever be. and u fail to get it on another level, as stated be4, alliance have their priorities, horde has theirs. u keep conflating the 2.
That’s cute, you think I’m Trolling, when you can’t combat it, with anything else.
No, I said a PuG is not a Guild. You’re trying to equate a PuG to a Guild, they’re not the same thing.
No, simply seeing the same individuals, over and over again, doesn’t equate to being Guildmates. You can still see the same Horde person, over and over, again, but that doesn’t make you (the Alliance person) a Guildmate, of the Horde person. That’s not how being a Guildmate, works. That’s something that you don’t understand. If I begin seeing you, on these Forums, over and over, again, that doesn’t make us Guildmates. I would never want to be Guildmates, with you.
Again, you’re comparing apples and oranges. A Pre-Made does not own the BG Instance. An actual Raid Team does own the Raid Instance due to its lockout and controls the type of PuGs even allowed into that Instance lockout, with them. You do not have an Instance Lockout in a BG. You do not dictate/control the type of PuG Members will even show up, in the BG. Nor can you and your Pre-Made, even get the same BG. Hence why nobody is actually in charge of that BG.
Exactly, my point. You keep thinking you get to dictate the BG, and I keep telling you that you do not. Nobody has the power, if we did, Pre-Mades wouldn’t even be praying to get the same BG, as their fellow Pre-Made Members. Pre-Mades wouldn’t have to worry about questionable PuG Members. And Horde would be able to Pre-Made, alongside the Alliance. Your Pre-Made is not the dictator.
Being in a Pre-Made isn’t really the point. It’s about two things: A) Pre-Mades Silencing Accounts that doesn’t pass them the Leader Role and B) Pre-Mades (or people, in general) thinking they actually “own” the BG. You still don’t, no matter how hard you try.
My very first Post, in this Thread was addressing that Horde doesn’t have to worry about getting their Accounts Actioned because Pre-Mades didn’t get their Leader Role. That’s literally what I’ve been defending. Meanwhile, you came at me, acting as though Pre-Mades should be “let off the hook” 'cause you find not passing the Leader Role to be “toxic”, and that’s what I’ve been telling you that it really isn’t. Pre-Mades threatening for the Leader Role is. Or you thinking, that somebody not passing the Leader Role deserves to get their Account actioned, and how their contribution is somehow “harmful” to you and your Pre-Made.
Hence why I find you disgusting. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be defending nor pin point blame on people that don’t Pre-Made nor conform to your idea of playing AV “right”. Get over yourself.
Exactly, it’s not necessary to play this game, nor for you to even win AV. Or for others to play the Game “right”. You’re catching on.
Not accusing, just observing and pin pointing where I get the certain feeling from and wanting clarification.
I was describing what certain people (Pre-Mades) are doing. And why I’m against people actioning people’s accounts over a Video Game, that you seem / appear to defend. You have yet to condemn this behavior because you’re only talking about the Game starting, when Groups are not even full. Not that there’s a Community (Pre-Made or not) actioning people’s accounts, that don’t do what they want. And that you’re still putting blame on the PuGs, themselves.
Is it too much too ask, that you don’t have to have the Leader Role/Assist? Is it too much to ask to maybe do it a different way? You keep unraveling, why you’re not really actually working as a Team with the PuGs, as you so preached, earlier.
No, you did, when you claimed that the PuGs are in “your” Game. It’s not “your” Game.
I’m talking about those that action accounts over not getting the Leader Role, keep up, will you?
I’m not apologizing for something that I didn’t do wrong. I said you are defending those that action the accounts of those that refuse to pass the Leader Role/give Assist, to Pre-Mades that feel like they own the BG. Do you not remember my first, post?
And your response to me was DEFENDING such behavior:
Are you caught back up, now? 'Cause I have yet to see you condemning this behavior and placing blame on the victims, of these accounts simply because Pre-Mades didn’t get their Leader Role. Disgusting.
And I made a valid point that certain individuals (Pre-Made or not) were abusing the Silence feature to punish people for refusing to give up the Leader Role/Assist. And this entire time, you have yet to condemn these people, instead are DEFENDING their actions and trying to insinuate that those who got actioned were the ones being “toxic”. Do you get it, now, or are you still confused?
No, you just keep plugging your ears.
Still doesn’t refute, anything.
IK, it’s difficult for you to understand other people’s points of view.
It’s really not funny, that bullies get to go around actioning people’s accounts because they didn’t get their way, but you can keep ignoring the problem.
lol if u truly think that, ur not a troll, ur insane lol. claiming it can be done lol. just wow. not saying it cant be, but WOW LOL.
i cant talk to the horde, or is it something i should really really try? lol. and thank god we arent guild mates, id be roasting u every day, day in and day out. if u cant understand that a guild is a group of people who tries to accomplish a certain goal, weather it be totally just socializing or raiding or pvp. what i was trying to get at is the premades have the same mentality, i OPPED IN. a guild is not just a tag next to your name, its the goals behind it dude.
lol. ur literally back to tallking about ownership, no1 wants to own it, for the trillionth time. at this point i hope it was u who was silenced for whatever reason, u obviously need to be lol. whhatever premade did it. THANK YOU LOL. just remember, u started this nastyness with ur last comment about never want to be guildmates, u cant even stay objective to the topic, gotta attack the person, so go for it.
i got 2 hours be4 my ride ends, this will be fun lol.
wow. again just wow lol. i donnt even know what ur getting at here. im saying the pugs literally cant make it into dreks room be4 me, not because im dictating anything lol, cuz if im the paladin doing the warmaster strat, im leading the charge. im saying if ur a pug and u even maliciously try to pull the wm’s by trying to get there in fronnt of me, we will just back up annd let u die, because at that point ur being toxic though its never happened on my watch. im saying pugs wont even have a chance to screw it up, frankly idk what ur even talking about. u have a serious hard on for this control narritive of how alliance premades have an iron clench on the pugs and im saying because my group is different, u dont get to lump me in with them, u know why? because we didnt do it, thats like saying blizzard ban guild A’s name because guild B’s name is offensive and the reasoning is they both are guilds though!
idgaf about other premades, done with that argument. no1 thinks they own a BG instance, done with that argument.
what ur defending is insanity. like i said over and over, i have a macro that explains how to do give assist. and if they dont, we just get the roles done in chat. i do recind 1 small comment though that i said a while ago, they might not be toxic, they just might be afk, either way, i already said my group just does it in chat so at least all roles are filled. BUT, to not just give out assist, and ur not afk, and ur not even engaging to try to solve the problem, ur being toxic.
ur pathetic to even defend this at all period dude. cuz ive already said i dont do that silence thing, and u continue to say it, that makes ur arguements PATHETIC.
epic troll. actual proof ur a troll. maybe a super tryhard guild like apes can actually do it though, their healers lol a macro for every person lol, but frankly its downright DUMB.
WOW. ur just observing me say it over and over that i dont and pin poiting where u get a certain feeling and wanting clarification, though ive said over and over and over and over lol, thats what makes u pathetic dude.
i dont care what other premades are doing, and there u go again " that you seem / appear to defend" . read over all my posts, i keep saying my premade dont do it, wtf do i care what others are doing? if im not doing it? let me ask u something, when people was abusing the layering system by getting invites to parties and thus layered in, if i get invited to a party, but im not doing the layering thing, am i to be blamed still? think about how insane ur talking point is. i have yet to condemn? are u serious? WOW, ur a very interesting one. like seriously lol. i literally admitted that was a problem FIRST, BE4 the other guy said blizzard appologized for allowinng the door to open (which is right, its blizzards fault, and i did forget they did say that). just to make a fair point, imagine wow classic being dead or most of the alliance players just jump to horde because “reasons, dont matter what reasons” and say 10 alliance que for av and 40 horde does the same, the gate still opens. this is why this is a BLIZZARD problem, not a PREMADE problem. so be4 this goes further, u need to address this, cuz its the 3rd time ive said it. blizzard specifically claims fault for this, u CANNOT blame premades. just look at all the other games out there that has any kind of pvp, what development team allows the match to start without filling the game first period? oh i got a better one, they had 15 years to figure it out, this isnt even a bug.
EPIC TROLL. is it too much to ask to click that checkmark? lol. here i got a better idea, why the pugs work with the premades to win the game? OH WAIT, 99.999999% OF THEM DO, i bet ur the salty one that refuses to give assist and keep getting hit with silence cuz u were flagged by a specific premade.
might as well play the troll game now lol. YEA IT IS SON.
i dont care about them, we dont do it, i dont care what they do, thats that.
AND THERE IT IS. no i am not defending them, i said VERY SPECIFICALLY, VERY VERY SPECIFICALLY, OVER AND OVER, MY PREMADE DONT DO IT, I HAVE A MACRO. AND IF WE DONT GET ASSIST, WE DO IT IN CHAT SO ALL THE POSITIONS ARE FILLED. THERE IT IS SON, THE ACTUAL PROOF U LUMP US IN WITH THEM. i say again, i said it very very specifically many many times. wheres my apology? lol. i dont even want it, keep going, this is funny, still got 1 hour left on this drive!
LOL again, i already said i dont care what others do withh their premade. do i condemn it? at this point i might as well go full troll right? HELL NO I DONT CONDEMN IT. PASS THAT LEAD OVER SON. frankly if u “wont” click that check mark and go do whatever u want (not because of competency or because ur afk) ur being toxic and i hope u constantly get hit with the silence lol. oh, and CONVERSELY, u if ur argument is the pug doesnt want to play the premade way, why oh why does the 1 pug get too dictate to thhe whole group? ITS NOT HIS RIGHT? weak arguements dude.
do u want me to fix the tectonic plates so they dont shift too? again, not my premade, not my problem. oh, i got a better idea, remember how u kept complaining about how premades silence that dude? that dude can easily take a screenshot, and thus have a list of all those people and he can go report them, and im sure those people will get far harsher sentences for lying. BOOM , I , A PREMADE PLAYER, JUST SOLVED UR PROBLEM.
because santa claus is real.
nothing to refute lol.
if u think ur annywhere near winning ur insane dude. to actually be salty that ur goiing to win the game, all because of a check mark. categorically insane.
ii dont care its not funnny, i didnt do it, and hell, like i said it a little further up, i just solved ur problem.
If you agree that it can be done, why are you shocked about me saying it?
You made the claim of seeing somebody over and over, again makes you Guildmates, and I pointed out how that’s not true. You never said anything about Communication, which you still can communicate with the opposing faction. Like these Forums, for example. And the concept of a Guild is to do things, together, but a Pre-Made with different people, from different Guilds, is still not a Guild. You’re just borrowing each other, for one activity. You may repeat those activities, over and over, again, but you’re still not a Guild, together.
You’re not in a structured Guild, together. You just continuously borrowing each other (which is fine), but you’re still not a Guild. You’re not loyal, to each other, throughout the entirety, of the Game. You’re not Leveling, together. You’re not running Dungeons, together.
You’re not feeding each other Mats. You’re not Raiding, in Raids, together. You do things, together, as a whole, but you’re only going together, for AV. That’s not a Guild.
I don’t know why you’re so confused. Didn’t you say that people, not in your Pre-Made, are in “your” game? Well, you said “our”, I’m assuming, you’re speaking on behalf of your Pre-Made.
If that’s not you claiming ownership, I don’t know what else to tell you.
You, hoping I’ve been Account actioned, over this, shows exactly where you stand, on this issue. You, obviously, see nothing wrong with other people abusing the system.
Well, you should because they can have affect, in how the Game is altered.
Ad hominem attacks are not valid arguments. Try, again.
Simply not passing over a Leader Role/handing out Assist is not a Toxic mannerism. Otherwise, those who are just Fishing or AFK, in not trying to solve your problem are being just as “Toxic”, according to your own definition. And what exactly is the problem? That you didn’t get the Leader Role/Assist? Even though, you found a work around for it, making it obvious that you don’t really need the Leader Role/Assist.
You’re being Toxic by making this a bigger issue, then it really is, when you’ve already developed a system, around such a case. Especially, since you let the Fishers and AFKers get away with their lack of involvement.
I’m defending accounts getting Silenced 'cause they’re not actually spamming any Public Chat Channels which is what the Silence System is for. And Bullies don’t get to misuse a System simply because they didn’t get their way. Your ad hominem attacks and refusal to accept the truth, doesn’t change this.
The more you attack me, personally, the more your stance falls apart.
As I said earlier, you should care about what they’re doing 'cause what they do affects you, too.
Just because you say you don’t do it, doesn’t mean I have to believe you, but that wasn’t my point. You have yet to condemn these folks for abusing the Silence Feature. And, you’ve said, several times, that if it’s about passing over the Leader Role/Assist, that they should just simply it hand over, and that’s why I’m telling you, they shouldn’t have to be bullied/threatened, into handing over the Leader Role/Assist.
'Cause what they do affects the rest of us, in how we play the Game. Like I’ve been saying.
You just really love comparing apples to oranges. You’re essentially bragging about how Blizzard made this change, just to spite the Horde 'cause you think Blizzard was only thinking about the Horde, but I’m telling you, it wasn’t just the Horde, but the Alliance, as well. Because of what those Pre-Mades, did to them, the Solo PuGs, anyway.
No, you didn’t condemn the Pre-Mades about this. Only about the Doors opening but continued to pry at the Solo PuGs for not playing AV “right”.
And my point doesn’t involve any of that. It’s about the Pre-Mades Silencing Accounts of people that didn’t follow their every instruction.
Because I’m not even talking about that? I only brought it up because that was the only thing you mentioned about condemning Pre-Mades, for. Still, you keep defending their actions in Silencing Accounts that didn’t give Leader Role/Assist. I don’t know what’s so complicated about that. 'Cause I literally said, Horde didn’t have to deal with that, and you got all defensive about it.
Once again, ad hominem attacks are not valid arguments. Try again.
I did quote it, for you, so you can see what I’m referring to.
If you don’t care about them, why did you engage with me? That’s literally what I’ve been talking about, this entire time. Doesn’t matter, anyway 'cause I said, you should 'cause they affect your Gameplay.
Then why is it, when my very first post said Horde doesn’t have to fear about getting their Account actioned because Alliance Pre-Mades didn’t get their Leader Role/Assist, did you jump at me, if you know you’re not guilty?
We’ve already established that you don’t care what jerks do, in game, even though you should 'cause that’s really what causes a lot of these changes. Also, even though you may be joking (even though this isn’t a joking manner), that’s why I said, it’s important to work, as a Team. If they are the Leader Role, then they are the Leader.
Some of them don’t even threaten, right away. They’ll bypass the “rude talk” and just ask for the Leader Role, person says no, and the Pre-Made, in their Discords will conspire from there and Silence the person, to disconnect them.
Just keep denying the truth, it’s OK.
You’re sadly mistaken, to believe I’m upset over the Leader Role. It’s about falsely actioning people’s accounts. Really doesn’t matter the reason.
A) If you don’t care, you shouldn’t have engaged with me, in the first place. Because I do care, and that’s my entire point, of being in this conversation, to begin with. It was the very first thing I said and will continue to stand by what I said.
B) Again, you should care, 'cause what people do the in Game, does affect us all. This being one of them.
C) And you didn’t solve, any problem. It was a nice try, though.
Yet you avoid both of those threats.
Ha. Don’t have to imagine go look at the high elf thread.
Oh really? So how come:
And with one sentence your whole smeel falls apart.
Oh that’s your average? Where’s the “turtle” you “like”? Yup. Mouth says one thing actions say another. Well except in this case.
Sure it’s a pvp battleground with a mix of pve objectives that are won or defended with? The PvP. You’ve avoided it at all costs for so long you think Van is PvP. Lol
I know this man. You guys are hellbent on a pve race that is favored for allies to win. Avoiding pvp at all costs.
15 years of that same strat/mentality makes it fact. You can spin that however you want. Cuz you will. 
What a witty reply. The book was made because the original AV was pretty complicated for newbies, with a lot of in depth options on how to overcome your opponents. So it simplified the map’s core strategy. The battleground was meant to simulate actual warfare. Zerg rushing was never the intended game play for players. It just evolved to be that way because of the player base. Now if you have something constructive to add, feel free. Otherwise don’t waste my time.
Cool story bro.
Cute, you kids thinking you came up with all this stuff that people have been doing for years.
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Hard to take a “leader” seriously when the simplest words cannot be spelled correctly.
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Except that the lopsided games were caused by a Blizzard coding error - not the premades.
This has been pointed out many times, by numerous people. But still, many people seem to have missed this. So I will include one example from this thread:
.
.
Further, here is the link to the post where Kaivax stated a Blizzard setting allowed the lopsided games to start:
.
It’s a long post and people might find it difficult to locate the exact place it is located. So I include a quote of the specific line where Kaivax states they are fixing the setting that caused this.
[quote=“Kaivax, post:1, topic:422125”]
We’re fixing a setting that allowed the battleground to start with as few as 20 players on a team. [/quote]
The premades did not write the code that allowed lopsided games to start.
The problem might have been fixed earlier if the players who saw this happening had mass reported it in the Bug Report forum rather than running to the General Forum to launch a witch hunt.
Except that the lopsided games were caused by a Blizzard coding error - not the premades.
This has been pointed out many times, by numerous people. But still, many people seem to have missed this. So I will include one example from this thread:
Here is the link to the post where Kaivax stated a Blizzard setting allowed the lopsided games to start:
.
It’s a long post and people might find it difficult to locate the exact place it is located. So I include a quote of the specific line where Kaivax states they are fixing the setting that caused this.
.
The premades did not write the code that allowed lopsided games to start.
The problem might have been fixed earlier if the players who saw this happening had mass reported it in the Bug Report forum rather than running to the General Forum to launch a witch hunt.
I think the bug was actually caused by Premades, but not intentionally.
I’m thinking the way the system worked is that it would check, see that 20+ signed up in relatively short order. Toss those 20+ into a new AV (because there’s enough for a new instance of AV). But many would decline the invitation because the BG number wasn’t the same for enough of the group.
However, the system wouldn’t do a second verification before transferring the players. It would still think that 20+ Alliance are going into ‘this’ AV, when in actuality only 8 or so are.
The result, you get matches that had as little as 4 players…~10 seconds before the match starts (gate opens).
Still not the players’ fault.
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@Holywar
Congrats on cheating your way to your rank by avoiding PvP in a battleground! Whatever title you earned means so much!
And take it easy on the Horde “whining.”
You didn’t hear it because it really didn’t matter to you, but there were plenty of Alliance who were very vocal because they did not like being stepped on by their own faction!
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I would not say the bug was caused by the premades, even unintentionally. Cause implies blame.
I think it would be more accurate to say the premades dropping some queues triggered, or exposed a bug in the coding.
Back in vanilla, Horde were the underpopulated faction and did use the same kind of method to create premades for themselves. There was never a complaint about those kinds of lopsided games starting, let alone an entire forum uproar about it.
If a game did not have enough people in it, it did not start. In making Classic, someone under time pressure might have made a mistake while cutting and pasting a part of the code.
Or given realm populations were much smaller, and given you didn’t have the entire Americas in one Battle group, a much smaller number of AV’s were created. Maybe something about the current population in the battle group created a situation that had never been encountered before. I have no idea what the cause was, but something obviously was not fully tested before release.
In any event, the premades had no idea that something like this was even possible. As the problem began to reveal itself, people expressed feeling bad for the pugs that were getting stuck in them. Some groups agreed to take borderline queues that were less than optimal, and would have normally been rejected, even though it increased the chance of failure for us. This was done to try to reduce the negative impact.
To then be repeatedly slandered; to be accused of being completely callous and doing far worse than what Horde did during phase 2 even after the real problem has been identified, gets to be way much.
As far as I have heard, there is only one thing premades have done that is ethically wrong, and that is to chat report a pug. I was in a premade group for a little over two weeks. I probably did someplace between 100 and 200 games with them. I had read about it on the forums, and one of my guild mates was silenced. But I did not run across it in any of my games until the night before the patch.
I was horrified when I heard someone ask the group to chat report someone. A rl friend of mine was at my house playing with me. “Don’t do it!” I yelled. “It will silence the person’s account for a week. No way he deserves that kind of treatment.” So neither of us reported the poor fellow. But enough people did that he was removed from the bg.
I’m still mortified over that. It is wrong, wrong, wrong.
In another post, I talked about the anti-social behaviors of psychopaths, sociopaths and “almost psychopaths”.
In any event, I believe that premades absolutely do have to take responsibility to stop this kind of behavior.
Because many people are quick to point the finger, I want to repeat, I ran well over 100 AV’s, maybe even over 200, with these people. In all those games I saw that occur only once. So it might not be as prevalent as the forums make it appear. Or maybe I was just in a group of people who rarely did it. I do think it’s the kind of thing that can get worse over time. Because people with little or no conscience will encourage others to do it, and they can influence people who don’t fully understand how bad it is.
If the person in our group who told the others to do it, is actually one of these extreme anti-social types, they probably did not even report the person themselves. They are very good at getting others in trouble while protecting themselves.
These behaviors have to be nipped in the bud, or they will destroy the good that the premades have done, and are trying to do.
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Blizzard fixed it, which is what Alliance and some Horde players wanted. But the problem would of never happened if people just stopped dodging the queue in the first place. Cherry picking teams to win isn’t “In the Spirit of the Game”. When one side has the ability it makes for a unfair advantage, much like pulling the War masters from Drek room then using pathing to kill Drek. We know eventually they fix it, but will Activision do it, or allow the current state of the game exist, further dividing the community and making the game even more toxic. I do want to think because it wasn’t also fixed sooner was because of the holidays.
Wtf u even babbling on about. Okay for starters this is not the original or is it anything like the original vanilla experience. In vanilla we waited maybe 30 mins at most ever for a bg. You alliance members still putting together premades should get the ban hammer as it’s been expressed many times by blizzard that AV was not meant to be qued as 40 man group. AV has become a complete sh#t show and it’s alliances fault not hordes
As for the getting exalted on our mains 90% of us did that the first week and dipped out of AV. Those people farming the higher titles care about honor and nothing else. So…dumb comment.
I was really hoping this newest patch would at least deter alliance from cheating but it didn’t so now we have even more issues and even longer ques…thanks again for that.
Cauchy, I’d be curious to see if your guild got a bump in numbers due to your posting. On the flip side, the guilds of alliance players who are vocally excuse making cowards have got to be suffering as a result.
If I were looking to faction swap, it is your attitude that would be attractive. The ones blaming everything but their own defeatist attitudes, not so much.